12 volt into tray

12 volt into tray

Postby davo94 on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:08 pm

Hello all

Just after some advice about running 12 volt into the tray to power my 40l fridge. My brother was ment to do it for me before we go camping but hasnt been able to.

I know the basics when it comes down to wiring(did my own brake controller install) and wanted to use a switch in the cabin to be able turn it on and off.

Thanks in advance
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby ls2cruiser on Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:54 pm

Just make sure you use 6mm wire and go right to the battery terminals . Dont use the chassis as an earth pick up. You know the rest, cheers
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby davo94 on Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:56 pm

Well all done as of yesterday. Ran a 30 amp circuit breaker from the battery and from the breaker to a smart solinoid that essentially only supplies power when the engine is running.

Click to view larger picture

Used lots of condute to make sure it was well insulated but damn I hate working with the stuff. Ran dual 6mm wire from the bay (earth direct off the battery as per the above) and down on top of the left hand side chassis rail again wrapped in condute.
Went with an Anderson fitting mounted in the tray for my fridge. Was pretty happy as I didn't have to drill a hole in the tray. Just in line with the fitting there's a hole just big enough to run the wires through.

Click to view larger picture

End result. Worked perfectly and according to my brother it's a good start for a dual battery system with a second battery mounted in the engine bay

Just a pic of my rig. Had taken this just after fitting a brake controller.
First trip was today and the thing towed great. The camper weighs 1.2t to 1.4t loaded(kids bikes, water, gas bottle and other crap) and I managed 10.7l/100 out of it.

Click to view larger picture

Really really happy with the triton
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby TIS on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:19 pm

Where did you come back up into the tray with the wires?
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby davo94 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:28 pm

There's a small hole up under the lip of the tray. It's pretty much in line with the small hump in the tub liner in the pic and not in line with the plug as I said above.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby TIS on Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:33 pm

Yeah mate, where you feeding it in from underneath when you're coming from the chassis rail?
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby davo94 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:02 am

Yeah came up from the chassis rail near where the town bar wiring loom is. There's a pretty decent gap between the outer and inner skin of the rear quarter and the inside of the tray.


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And up to the top of the tray

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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby jerrah on Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:49 am

I took the tail light out and then fed the wire up from underneath and then out from under the lip. Seems to work well.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby taurus577 on Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:28 pm

jerrah wrote:I took the tail light out and then fed the wire up from underneath and then out from under the lip. Seems to work well.


I did this too, was pretty easy and looks neat.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby andelect on Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:00 pm

Thanks Davo94, fantastic you uploaded your info for everyone.
Really helped me my install and did exactly the same yesterday thanks to you. Just worked out so well.
Really appreciated!
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby harmigera on Tue May 09, 2017 12:06 pm

Davo94, Great job. Plan on installing a brake controller and anderson plug this weekend, hopefully it will look as neat as yours.
Did you attach the circuit breakers direct to the battery plastic tray or do you have some sort of bracket? Can't tell from the photo.
Correct me if I'm wrong and I don't know if it matters, but is your bottom circuit breaker connected the wrong way? Battery should be connected to copper lug.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby davo94 on Fri May 19, 2017 12:24 pm

Have no idea regarding the copper lug. I wouldn't imagine that it would change the way it works.
As far as the circuit breakers go. I used some short screws into the battery tray. Theyre short enough and they don't go anywhere near the battery
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby Duck on Sat May 20, 2017 7:13 pm

Ute looks good, you may as well add a usb & ciggy socket for charging all the toys while your kicking back on the beach.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby gartam on Tue May 23, 2017 9:22 am

If you want to run power to the tray there is a blocked off electrical junction on the left hand side of the chassis near the fuel tank. It shows it in the diagram in the online manual. When you open the online manual on the left hand side there is a list. Go down to number 70- component locations and it will expand and then click on inspection connentor and spare connector and the diagram shows you where they are.
Last edited by gartam on Wed May 24, 2017 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby Ray57MQ on Tue May 23, 2017 3:15 pm

thanks for the tip Gartam, with the online manual could you post a link - thanks !
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby flyeroz on Tue May 23, 2017 6:10 pm

Ray57MQ wrote:with the online manual could you post a link - thanks !

Here you go:http://mmc-manuals.ru/Mitsubishi_L200_V:_Service_Manuals
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby Ray57MQ on Tue May 23, 2017 6:37 pm

flyeroz wrote:
Ray57MQ wrote:with the online manual could you post a link - thanks !

Here you go:http://mmc-manuals.ru/Mitsubishi_L200_V:_Service_Manuals


awesome, cheers !
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby koshari on Wed May 24, 2017 8:01 am

ls2cruiser wrote:Just make sure you use 6mm wire and go right to the battery terminals . Dont use the chassis as an earth pick up. You know the rest, cheers

why not?
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby ag9111 on Wed May 24, 2017 10:12 am

koshari wrote:
ls2cruiser wrote:Just make sure you use 6mm wire and go right to the battery terminals . Dont use the chassis as an earth pick up. You know the rest, cheers

why not?


0V return via the chassis relies on pieces of metal bolted together that were not meant to handle the passage of current. The tray is not bonded as a proper 0v connection point. As these pieces of metal oxidise and generally age the current path becomes worse and worse until eventually you have problems.
Most of the electrical issues with vehicles can be traced back to incorrect connection of the 0V. This includes humm and static on the radio
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed May 24, 2017 10:24 am

The tub I may agree with, but the chassis is fully earthed, as is the body. A proper connection will give just as good a return path to the battery negative as a direct wire, often better, since resistance is lower. It's how the manufacturers do it, although they generally put earth connections in places that aren't directly exposed, to reduce the effect of oxidisation.

While I've seen examples of poor earthing causing problems, earth loops are much more troublesome, and common for me.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby koshari on Wed May 24, 2017 11:05 am

^^^what 5th said is pretty consistant with my views.


ag9111 wrote:
koshari wrote:
ls2cruiser wrote:Just make sure you use 6mm wire and go right to the battery terminals . Dont use the chassis as an earth pick up. You know the rest, cheers

why not?


0V return via the chassis relies on pieces of metal bolted together that were not meant to handle the passage of current.


firstly there is no practical thing (other than superconductors but who would have a vehicle that they drive around at absolute zero??) as a 0v return. there are voltage drops throughout any electrical circuit including almost every practical example of a return path. if a vehicle chassis manufactured out of a welded conductive material were not able to handle a significant electrical current I would not be driving said vehicle. additionally the cross sectional area of a chassis would be so large that it would have a lower total resistance of all but the thickest copper return path resulting in as good or better voltage drop than a limited return conductor.

The tray is not bonded as a proper 0v connection point.


It could be, but I would agree using the tray as an earth return would be inferior compared to the chassis rails.

As these pieces of metal oxidise and generally age the current path becomes worse and worse until eventually you have problems.


this is uniform for any joints subjected to heat, temperate cycling and various other stresses.

Most of the electrical issues with vehicles can be traced back to incorrect connection of the 0V.

Many would be a better estimation. i would say possibly 10-20% at a guess.[/quote]

This includes humm and static on the radio

correct shielding techniques and filtering are likely to contribute more to eliminating noise than return paths of current IMO..
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby ag9111 on Wed May 24, 2017 12:22 pm

Simple fact of the matter is that the chassis, body was never designed to carry high current apart from the link battery to body to motor.
You can throw up all the theory and assumptions in the world but the fact is i have diagnosed and fixed 5, that I can remember, of these dual battery systems that have failed. Corrosion being the main cause.
Cable to battery and tidy up the connections and all good.

I had an argument with naff, a electrical engineer, on this very point at the Brindabells one weekend. You were there Chris.
A couple of years later his system failed due to a corroded 0v connection point to the tray. He apologised by post on this forum

As an electrician with 28 years DC experience I will always recommend 0v back to the battery.
You do what you want.
Last edited by ag9111 on Wed May 24, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby gunn parker on Wed May 24, 2017 12:58 pm

gartam wrote:If you want to run power to the tray there is a blocked off electrical junction on the left hand side of the chassis near the fuel tank. It shows it in the diagram in the online manual. When you open the online manual on the left hand side there is a list. Go down to number 70- component locations and it will expand and then click on inspection connentor and spare connector and the diagram shows you where they are.


Thanks for that and the link.
Is it possible to buy a plug to plug into that connector to run power to the tub and add an anderson plug as in the original post?
cheers
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby koshari on Wed May 24, 2017 7:35 pm

ag9111 wrote:Simple fact of the matter is that the chassis, body was never designed to carry high current apart from the link battery to body to motor.


DC train and tram car systems rails are also not specifically designed as return conductors but they do a splendid job of it. it would have to be a VERY large current to compromise either a chassis rail or a tramcar rail. i will add however that galvanic activity is present where circuits use different conductor materials, this WILL contribute to corrosion and crimping a copper connector to a steel chassis rail wont be exempt form that and will require minimal periodic maintenance.

You can throw up all the theory and assumptions in the world but the fact is i have diagnosed and fixed 5, that I can remember,

do you ever recall in your career any bad joints in a circuit where cabling was used rather than a chassis return? just 4 weeks ago my car wouldn’t start due to a bad connection on the negative battery post, my point was simply that bad connections can be anywhere in a circuit.

of these dual battery systems that have failed. Corrosion being the main cause.
Cable to battery and tidy up the connections and all good.


Of course you could have just repaired the failed joint and all would have been good as well without the expense of the extra copper.

I had an argument with naff, a electrical engineer, on this very point at the Brindabells one weekend. You were there Chris.


sorry to hear of the arguement, whos Chris?


A couple of years later his system failed due to a corroded 0v connection point to the tray. He apologised by post on this forum


that was nice of him.

As an electrician with 28 years DC experience I will always recommend 0v back to the battery.


fair enough, doesn’t mean to say that other methods are without merit. so your an auto electrician, nice.

You do what you want.

thank you , now if only my wife thought like that.
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Re: 12 volt into tray

Postby NowForThe5th on Wed May 24, 2017 8:21 pm

ag9111 wrote:I had an argument with naff, a electrical engineer, on this very point at the Brindabells one weekend. You were there Chris.


Yes, I was. I'm pretty sure I also recall the same, umm, discussion at Bendethera and a couple of other times here on the forum. :lol:

Not saying you're wrong, just that I don't consider the cable earth return to battery necessary if the connection to chassis or body is made correctly and in a place that will be less likely to suffer from corrosion. In the ML I made an earth point on the chassis rail using a tapped and cleaned hole with M8 bolt and nut all sealed up both sides with bituminous chassis paint. That earth point may be what holds this planet in place when Sol goes red dwarf. ;)

In the Paj the second battery is earthed to a sub-frame rail, from inside the cab, using what was the 3rd row seating mount. This is necessary, though, because of the smart alternator, which changes the game, somewhat, needing return current to be monitored by the Hall Effect sensor.

Not everyone goes to this kind of extent though and, I agree, lesser connections may well suffer corrosion and failure.

For most installations the current is actually quite low - generally the auxiliary battery powers things like a fridge and some lights, so the need is for a relatively low draw over a long period. Any half decent earth point, in good condition, on the chassis or body will handle this. Total current carried by the chassis/body though, can be quite large and it is designed for this, hence, as you point out, the need for the starting battery negative to body link to be well up to the job.
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