Surge Problem with MN Triton

[biggibbo]

Cant be the auto box torque converter as the manuals do it as well.

The reflash may help, however the ecutek may well over write it anyway. Better off getting ecutek to try and sort it for you.

[Longranger1]

You can bet a full reflash will overwrite your Ecutec tune (unless protected with encoding). If protected it will be immediately obvious to the MUT-3 user as it will not load the reflash.

Generally an Ecutec tune seems to sort most existing factory glitches pretty well.

Whether this applies to auto models I am not sure.

[hvac guy]

So here we are again with the surging issue:
Mine is a MN12 auto with 10,000 on the clock and the only mods I have done are the ECUTEK re-flash and a K&N filter, the car did surge a couple of times before these mods but only on the freeway doing 100-110-120 speeds with the cruise control on and the car just sitting on 2000 RPM.
Now recently I have had the chance to take the car down the coast a couple of times consecutively, as I rarely drive the triton these days, but going along the freeway same sort of speeds 100-110. Driving the car on the flat level roads the engine gets a surge in it and RPM's jump from 2000 to 2100-2200 then just goes back down quite quickly after it jumps up then all fine for a while then may do it again its quite intermittent in when it comes and when it goes.
It does seem to happen when the engine becomes a little unloaded like just after you come off the crest of a very small incline "talking very small" if you get what I mean then it feels like the cruise control just cant decide WTF it should do. The speed does not change one bit when it does this just the revs pick up then die back down.

I want to just get some more info from you guys before going into the dealer to say here is the issue what do you recommend to do so I get the car I paid for and what it is said to do. Reading this thread there doesn't seem to be any consistent reasons for the surging and even the type of surging itself.

Looking forward to your thoughts and feed back guys.

Cheers,

Ben

mine does this to it sounds like a car hitting a rev limiter has done it since new and comes and goes a new scv stopped it for about a year or so but now its back.

[Cowboy Dave]

I asked some questions about this once before and MRT told me that if you got the Mitsubishi reflash and it changed the base parameters they could read the details off your ECU, work the changes into their tune and then flash the new thing back on. Mind you they also said that they regularly got the updated software from Mitsubishi so that their base data would be the same as the latest from the dealer but I was never that convinced about that bit. In the end though with only 10,000 on it you may as well get the dealer to sort it under warranty. There are too many different possibilities to go chasing it down privately.

[shortSteve]

So here we are again with the surging issue:
Mine is a MN12 auto with 10,000 on the clock and the only mods I have done are the ECUTEK re-flash and a K&N filter, the car did surge a couple of times before these mods but only on the freeway doing 100-110-120 speeds with the cruise control on and the car just sitting on 2000 RPM.
Now recently I have had the chance to take the car down the coast a couple of times consecutively, as I rarely drive the triton these days, but going along the freeway same sort of speeds 100-110. Driving the car on the flat level roads the engine gets a surge in it and RPM's jump from 2000 to 2100-2200 then just goes back down quite quickly after it jumps up then all fine for a while then may do it again its quite intermittent in when it comes and when it goes.
It does seem to happen when the engine becomes a little unloaded like just after you come off the crest of a very small incline "talking very small" if you get what I mean then it feels like the cruise control just cant decide WTF it should do. The speed does not change one bit when it does this just the revs pick up then die back down.

I want to just get some more info from you guys before going into the dealer to say here is the issue what do you recommend to do so I get the car I paid for and what it is said to do. Reading this thread there doesn't seem to be any consistent reasons for the surging and even the type of surging itself.

Looking forward to your thoughts and feed back guys.

Cheers,

Ben

After a couple of attempts rectifying mine, dealer thinks it is the scv "sticking", but the scv also now has wetness around it (like it's leaking where it bolts up) so i'm thinking it could be that aswell (o-rings?)
Will get replaced either at next service or when the srs harnesses arrives, which ever comes first.
Happy with the diagnosis. Fuel additives helped reduce it a lil in both frequency and duration aswell, as did plugging the chip back in.

[kwaka14]

Update. Just to let everyone know that I still have not been able to get the car into the dealer, but just to see from the manual drivers out there does the surging come on when they are not using cruise control. As I can't get mine to do it when I'm driving at the same speed off the cruise control therefore I'm struggling to see the connection with putting this down to a fuel issue alone I really think that it is in part something to do with the auto box along with a cruise control problem.... I want here from auto drivers who may have come across he same issue. I do have a video of it doing and I'm just figuring how to show it then people can see if it's he same problem as there's.
If it is a fuel issue with the scv you would think the car would surge under all different driving conditions not just at 100-110 with the cruise control on.

[shortSteve]

Update. Just to let everyone know that I still have not been able to get the car into the dealer, but just to see from the manual drivers out there does the surging come on when they are not using cruise control. As I can't get mine to do it when I'm driving at the same speed off the cruise control therefore I'm struggling to see the connection with putting this down to a fuel issue alone I really think that it is in part something to do with the auto box along with a cruise control problem.... I want here from auto drivers who may have come across he same issue. I do have a video of it doing and I'm just figuring how to show it then people can see if it's he same problem as there's.
If it is a fuel issue with the scv you would think the car would surge under all different driving conditions not just at 100-110 with the cruise control on.

Mine started just as light throttle surging (like as you crest a hill, without cruise), about 2 weeks later started to increase in frequency (once or twice in a 50km trip, maybe every 2nd day) then started on cruise too under the same conditions, eg: cresting a hill. After a further few weeks it did it, still randomly, but under all accelerative and cruising conditions. Maybe two or three imes (for a few seconds at a time) per trip. Could never get it to repeat fault on demand tho, always random times. Like pulling out of the kids school carpark in the wet in second gear lol

[tritonliz]

My Triton 2010 MN has had 2 EGR valve replacements, 2 manifold replacements and a manifold clean all in the last 12 months. Lots of issues with EGR and poor performance, in fact foot to the floor and only 20kms an hour max for first 100 metres. Seems to be an ongoing issue with no cure apart from blanking plate or chip but at this time I don't want to void my warranty so waiting a few years..
I also had issues with false readings on thermostat and they replaced radiator, sensor and then thermostat as couldn't work out the problem.

The EGR issues go back to 2007 but they clearly havn't done anything about it as are aware of probs since 2007!!
I love the Triton but would love to solve this issue as worry what it is doing to the engine long term..

[shortSteve]

My Triton 2010 MN has had 2 EGR valve replacements, 2 manifold replacements and a manifold clean all in the last 12 months. Lots of issues with EGR and poor performance, in fact foot to the floor and only 20kms an hour max for first 100 metres. Seems to be an ongoing issue with no cure apart from blanking plate or chip but at this time I don't want to void my warranty so waiting a few years..
I also had issues with false readings on thermostat and they replaced radiator, sensor and then thermostat as couldn't work out the problem.

The EGR issues go back to 2007 but they clearly havn't done anything about it as are aware of probs since 2007!!
I love the Triton but would love to solve this issue as worry what it is doing to the engine long term..

The false readings on the thermostat sound like the same symptoms the guys with defective head gaskets are showing...?

[shortSteve]

Update on surging:
Dealer ran out of time doing the srs harness (was the day before xmas they squeezed it in) so couldn't get it replaced. Apparently mma are refusing scv replacements due to cost without a "flow reading" or similar being done and proving faulty, which as my dealer pointed out is really impossible with an intermittent fault?

Anyway, currently running a fuel additive for diesals, as i have said before, almost completely fixed whatever the issue is, have only today had the first little stutter in 7000 od km's, and it was under high load with a/c on in midrange of third accelerating out of a slow speed bend up to highway speeds. So, different surge/stutter (not on cruise) but hopefully a one off....

Will go through and do fuel filter again if i gets worse, then if that doesn't fix it just buy the damn scv myself lol

Have a happy new years folks

[kwaka14]

I still have not gone back to the dealer to get the issue rectified slack slack slack I know! but work calls, So as soon as i get the latest from my dealer about this issue I will post up the response and any feedback.
One thing I will say is that after talking to the work shop guy and being steered off caltex fuels I have now run three full tanks of BP diesel through the car the problem really has gone besides the odd fluter here and there.
I managed to do a couple of trips up and down to Byron from Brissy and the last one spent an hour completley on cruise control up and down hills and on flats at 115km/h and it never did it once. yet the other day on cruise doing 80km/h it did it again whilst coming cresting a hill and going into a no load scenario, but asoon as i know more I will let everyone know .

cheers,
Ben

[blamesociety]

Wanted to share my experience with the "dreaded Triton surge". At around 27,000 kms about 3 weeks ago, I detected a slight miss/surge in my 2013 GLX-R, and having read this thread before, I wasn't surprised! I had no time to book the car in to get diagnosed and fixed due to moving house and Xmas closures, and it was only minor, so I continued to drive. Within the next 1000 km, it became almost undriveable, surging at all speeds, coughing black smoke, and hardly any power up hills.

I finally got it to the dealer today, and 2 hours later they rang me to say it was fixed and ready to pick up. The work description says "There was poor contact between the AFS (air flow sensor) pins and the AFS connector on the 4D56 engine. This causes the vehicle to surge and blow black smoke at low speeds. Remedy/rectification: Adjusted the pin connectors by twisting them 8-10 degrees as per hotline fix MN15-005". Zero cost (warranty).

Picked it up at lunch and drove back to work, and it was a heap better, however still had a miss/surge at high revs (3000+). I rang them back in the afternoon and they said come straight down and take the foreman for a drive. I took him around the block (revving it above 3000rpm in 2nd and just about ejecting us from our seats as it surged and coughed). He said he hadn't tested it at such high revs when signing off on the job, and it sounded like the fuel filter (which was due at 30,000 km). I have had a few tanks of Woolworths Caltex through it recently and he said they have had a problem with that fuel.

I took him back to the workshop and he got a guy to replace the fuel filter on the spot. Fuel filter $76.00 ex GST, supply and fit (labour) $16.04 ex GST (took about 10 minutes). Fleet pricing (it's under a lease). Just drove home and she's running smoothly.

Seems I encountered a deadly combination of dodgy AFS connections and dodgy Woolies Caltex fuel.

[hvac guy]

when u get the 30k service done ask them not too replace the fuel filter but give it to u instead so u have a spare.

[blamesociety]

when u get the 30k service done ask them not too replace the fuel filter but give it to u instead so u have a spare.

By the time the current tank of crappy fuel has run through it, it might need another filter!

[DamTRITON]

I also have just bought a 2010 MN 2.5HP and have some surging issues

Mileage: 105 000 km
Engine revs: >2000rpm while accelerating and constant >2000 rpm
Engine temp: more noticeable when warm
CEL: not on, has never been on other than usual startup check.
Surge frequency: 1-2 per second
Surge amount: only seems to be about 100 rpm
Sounds: associated with a thrashing sound on the increase rpm phase of the surging (injectors?)
Fuel: unknown history, but one and only fill (40l) with Caltex (prior to knowing about the Caltex issue) from me. Only 160 km of that tankfull used

Looking at it logically it seems like a fuel quantity supply issue (running the injectors dry?)

Best bets? Fuel pump/fuel filter/fuel regulator

Thoughts of the crew here??????

I have yet to take it back to the dealer to have it diagnosed (due for service in a week or so). Just wanting to know if I am in the ballpark and can make it past the B.S. spin the dealer may throw up.

[biggibbo]

SCV or filter to start with. May also have some carbon build up in the manifold

[AnOldFart]

Hi 'dam'
First:- Stick one 300ml dose of Castrol 2T (FC rated mineral 2-Stroke Oil) into your fuel tank -as you also fill it up- to full mark, then go for a drive to use up all of the 'straight-diesel' currently sitting in your fuel lines and filter and get the new 2T-loaded stuff circulating through your SCV and fuel pump. Then repeat the same driving scenario that you first noticed, made it play up, and see if it's now disappeared....??

Second:- If the 2T didn't fix it then, try removing the MAF sensor (external connector) plug and check that the 5 small metal contact pins inside it look clean and give them a squirt of your favourite electrical cleaning jooce. I recommend 'LanoTec GP' available from Soupycheep. Then plug it in, and remove it again, at least a couple of times, which will help to 'clean' the mating male / female pins inside the connector. Now go for another drive, repeating the same fault inspiring scenario again and see what the result is this time...??

Third:- If the problem's still there then I would suggest it's probably due to a partially blocked fuel filter, which is restricting the higher volume of fuel flow being demanded by your donk under the hard acceleration and higher revs scenarios.

That's my 2c worth of suggestions for you, hope they help.
PS:- Regardless if either the 1st or 2nd suggested steps above fixes your surging problem, I personally, would still go the 'whole hog' and use a spray can of CRC MAF Cleaner to clean the MAF Sensor itself, as well. Available at Soupycheep for $25

[aussie56]

I also have just bought a 2010 MN 2.5HP and have some surging issues

Mileage: 105 000 km
Engine revs: >2000rpm while accelerating and constant >2000 rpm
Engine temp: more noticeable when warm
CEL: not on, has never been on other than usual startup check.
Surge frequency: 1-2 per second
Surge amount: only seems to be about 100 rpm
Sounds: associated with a thrashing sound on the increase rpm phase of the surging (injectors?)
Fuel: unknown history, but one and only fill (40l) with Caltex (prior to knowing about the Caltex issue) from me. Only 160 km of that tankfull used

Looking at it logically it seems like a fuel quantity supply issue (running the injectors dry?)

Best bets? Fuel pump/fuel filter/fuel regulator

Thoughts of the crew here??????

I have yet to take it back to the dealer to have it diagnosed (due for service in a week or so). Just wanting to know if I am in the ballpark and can make it past the B.S. spin the dealer may throw up.

Just wondering what your fix here was, I have a 2009 ML 2.5 diesel with 105k and already have had the manifold changed out to the newer one 10k ago but am now experiencing the surging at about 60-70km.

[AnOldFart]

Just wondering what your fix here was, I have a 2009 ML 2.5 diesel with 105k and already have had the manifold changed out to the newer one 10k ago but am now experiencing the surging at about 60-70km.

Check this...
Re: Carbon build - up its everyone’s problem.
Postby AnOldFart on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:55 pm
When was the last time you changed the fuel filter, or, to put it another way, how many tank refills of 'contaminated' fuel have you had in it since then...

[kwaka14]

So I have finally taken the ute for its 15,000 service and told them about the surge and showed them a video of it also they said they would look at it along with a couple of other small niggling little things, "so all good I get the call the car is all fixed and ready to go" no worries I rock on in and get told they re-flashed the ECU to fix the surge problem with the docket stating that it was a warranty fix as per the hot line fix "MN-13-006"

Bugger knows what that means and the guy couldn't really tell me anyway, but not only did it re-write my ECU-TEK flash but driving home the bloody car is still doing the same thing. So need to go back to mercury motorsport for my re-flash to be installed again but have to get the car back to the dealer.

More to come as I know more guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Ben

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah there was a reflash going around for a high speed surge, I think it was over 110 and causing issues with cruise control or something. They stuck it on mine and seemed all pleased with themselves until I explained that my surge was at low speed on a cold engine and completely different...

[Robby]

Hi guys
I had my 1500 km service done, I mentioned the the surge problem to the service manager.
His response was " Mitsubishi introduced holding revs to prevent carbon build up and all late MY 13 and MY 14 will do this and is normal"
I asked if it was normal why so inconsistent his response " engine temperature, weather and driving conditions"
Well having my ute for a few weeks now I was sort of getting used to it and like I said sometimes it does not surge at all. Last night was the first time I had driven the triton in the rain and the surging was terrible worst it has ever been?

Cheers Robby

[AD07]

Sounds strange to me.....
I dont understand how holding revs would cause a surge?
Wouldnt the revs be fluctuating, rather than holding.....

[Robby]

I agree certainly a lot more revs then just holding.

[kwaka14]

Just had the Ecutek re-flash put back on at mercury motorsport in Brisbane no troubles there the boys did it that day I wrang up it was just a re-flash from my saved file they have on record.
I'm still waiting to here from the dealer about the situation with the surge but I suspect the will want the car for more time to check it out.

More to come !!