Snorkel - ARB Safari vs. TJM Airtec

[furious]

Hi,

I have a 2012 MN Triton 2.5lt Diesel.

I had an ARB Tow Step Bar fitted today. Lucky story actually. I called up to inquire about cost and the lady asked me what colour my car was? I said white, she said we have one in stock and can fit it today. Awesome, can now use the boat on the weekend.

So, for the people who have them, which snorkel would you chose - ARB Safari or TJM Airtec. I like the look of the TJM but my parents have had a ARB Safari on their Patrol for 3 years and not had a problem.

I see most people on here seem to have the ARB model. Why is that?

P.S. no doubt this question has been asked before but, my search turned up nothing.

[irwazza]

I went tjm purely because they look good

[Cowboy Dave]

TJM is fine but a more painful install. The safari I suppose is just the market leader. A no risk alternative.

There are cheaper copies that are perfectly fine including the Ironman and there's one that 4wd supplies one of our forum sponsors sells as well - all are the spitting image of the safari.

[tomdej]

I went ARB/Safari in case I ever want to fit a pre filter (canister type).

[ag9111]

there are a couple of threads on this if you use the search function.

As CD said. the TJM is a very painful instal. Did mine just before we did the Vic High Country were we crossed some rivers were water lapped at the bonnet. Found water in my airbox which I put down to a faulty install of sealant on my part. Two other vehicles with TJM units also had water in airbox. Its all in the way that you have to apply the sealant to the various components and them move them to make it fit. Will be doing mine again

Hate the look of the safari though

[srb]

I went the TJM firstly because I think they are equally if not better than the ARB/ Safari and think they look way way better! The things to consider though is they are a fair bit harder and more time consuming to install. That's why I did it myself... I was happy to take the time to do It right! No short cuts here!

have a look whats involved here - viewtopic.php?f=38&t=9534

[mattz]

If you are installing it yourself.....the safari is easier.
Most of the time water is in the airbox is because of a dodgy install,which can happen no matter what brand you have.
Just pick the one you best like the look of and find the cheapest price.

[Joe]

Water can also get into the air box via the drain.

As others have said, go the safari type for an easy self install.

[furious]

Ok, thanks everyone. I will be getting it installed as I have the mechanical aptitude of a mule. Saying that, with a ARB being as easier install I will go with that for piece of mind.

[odie602r]

TJM is fine but a more painful install. The safari I suppose is just the market leader. A no risk alternative.

There are cheaper copies that are perfectly fine including the Ironman and there's one that 4wd supplies one of our forum sponsors sells as well - all are the spitting image of the safari.

Can anyone comment on the longevity of the copies - my only concern has been whether they have the same UV-stabilising 'stuff' in them as the more expensive ones. Cos on the outside, they look just as black

[har05l]

TJM is fine but a more painful install. The safari I suppose is just the market leader. A no risk alternative.

There are cheaper copies that are perfectly fine including the Ironman and there's one that 4wd supplies one of our forum sponsors sells as well - all are the spitting image of the safari.

Can anyone comment on the longevity of the copies - my only concern has been whether they have the same UV-stabilising 'stuff' in them as the more expensive ones. Cos on the outside, they look just as black

For the cost of the copies you'd almost be able to buy 3 to 1 so I wouldn't be to worried about the longevity. I have the cheap copy and you wouldn't know the difference except mine says triton and not safari on it.

I to did the high country trip also that ag9111 spoke of and I didn't get a single drop in the airbox after 9 bonnet deep crossings

[snowman]

TJM is fine but a more painful install. The safari I suppose is just the market leader. A no risk alternative.

There are cheaper copies that are perfectly fine including the Ironman and there's one that 4wd supplies one of our forum sponsors sells as well - all are the spitting image of the safari.

Can anyone comment on the longevity of the copies - my only concern has been whether they have the same UV-stabilising 'stuff' in them as the more expensive ones. Cos on the outside, they look just as black

x2. This would be my concern. a pattern can be copied but cheaper plastics would not show up until later. UV stabilisers, or lack of, in cheaper plastics, could take years and years to surface. All circumspect of course, that is the gamble we have to take and you will have to make.

Cheaper or not Ken the time you will find out is when a split in the snorkel has gone unnoticed and you find out as you hydraulic your diesel in the high country. Murphy's Law.

The difference in snorkel cost would not really seem like much at that point.

I went Safari because they have been building them successfully for years.

That said my installer decided in their wisdom NOT to block the drain and i have had some water come into the airbox . When i rang them they got all defensive and said it is 'personal preference'. I think it should be sealed particularly if you are going to tackler longer crossings such as those in the high country. The issue with these is that when new, the rubber flap almost acts as a one way valve and under suction (engine running) they are probably sucked closed. However they dont take long to perish and harden and then they are always a little bit open in my opinion. Have a look at your if your car is a little older.

[Custom Offroad]

Interesting topic....I know the owner of the company who makes the TJM snorkel and the OEM snorkles for Nissan, ford and mazda. He buys machinery off me. He has said that the drain should never be blocked in the air box as it is there to serve a purpose as it may allow water in but it also allows water out. If you are driving in a very heavy storm where is the water supposed to go that gets sucked into the filter box???

You need to consider how many water crossings you are doing vs how much rain you drive in.......The TJM is a great snorkel i love the fact that the ram head cannot be seen when in the drivers seat also on the topic of pre cleaners I have a UNI filter which fits perfectly! By not having the snorkel on the quarter panel does reduce the chance of grime building up under there and creating a rust hazard.

At the end of the day it is personal preference so go with what you like....I like to support local business that is why I went with the Australian made TJM snorkel!

[snowman]

just to clarify....you can't see the ARB head from drivers position either.

[srb]

Hay Snowie, how much water did you and the others see in the air boxs after those high country crossings? I haven't done anything deep yet but I know after driving in super heavy rain there's proof of water sitting in the bottom? I guess that's what the drains for, but in saying that it would probably just evaporate on its own anyway. I think I would have mine blocked up if I was going over the bonnet deep.

Sorry for the off topic hijack.

[snowman]

Hay Snowie, how much water did you and the others see in the air boxs after those high country crossings? I haven't done anything deep yet but I know after driving in super heavy rain there's proof of water sitting in the bottom? I guess that's what the drains for, but in saying that it would probably just evaporate on its own anyway. I think I would have mine blocked up if I was going over the bonnet deep.

Sorry for the off topic hijack.

it was not a huge amount. by the time i saw it it was more the dirty water streaks in lower aribox. considering that it has to almost fill and then run through filter (assuming car level) you would need something in the litres i reckon (unqualified bullshit alert )

This is an interesting topic and i would love to hear from others experience. The ram head is supposed to erradicate large quantities of driving rain by design. I think those ram socks would actually create more issues in that regard as the water can be prevented from hitting the back of the head.

small amounts of water in the airbox would be evaporated very quickly due to large airflows as well and as long as it doesn't go in condensed (water state) i dont think that is a problem.

[ag9111]

Hay Snowie, how much water did you and the others see in the air boxs after those high country crossings? I haven't done anything deep yet but I know after driving in super heavy rain there's proof of water sitting in the bottom? I guess that's what the drains for, but in saying that it would probably just evaporate on its own anyway. I think I would have mine blocked up if I was going over the bonnet deep.

Sorry for the off topic hijack.

I would say about 200 to 300 ml of water. Filter was damp but not wet. Didnt come in the drain plug as the inlet tube
has a low point in it and the water was pooled in that. definitly come through the snorkel somehow. It did rain solidly all of the friday so maybe some water got in that way as well Just stuffed up my own theory as i didnt check the airbox till the last day. Roughly 8 deep water crossing at airbox level over the weekend.

[helicoptercow]

it would be interesting to do a bit of a flow rate test on the airbox. I realise induction would have an effect as well, but to remove the airbox and suburge the drain under water and measure how much water comes though it say 30 seconds, and see how much water drains out in 30 seconds?

I have an ironman ( so safari) and there was some level of water in my airbox evident by the dirty residue and moisture in the baffling in the bottom. No doubt some level of it came up through the drain, and like Ag said we had a lot of rain the first day and it could have even been from other heavy rain events that caused the dirty residue lines before the trip. My filter was damp when i checked it but with the foggy mornings there was pleny of moisture in the air that could have caused a damp filter after 20mins of idling (will see if the filter is damp after driving though rain next, i expect it would be)

our longest crossing was about 25 seconds, and consistanty at bonnet level. If the residue line was from a crossing it would have been this one, and to be honest, i'd be content knowing that thats all that got it cause i would NOT be expecting to do longer crossings intentionally.



//edited cause i left NOT out

[snowman]

Hay Snowie, how much water did you and the others see in the air boxs after those high country crossings? I haven't done anything deep yet but I know after driving in super heavy rain there's proof of water sitting in the bottom? I guess that's what the drains for, but in saying that it would probably just evaporate on its own anyway. I think I would have mine blocked up if I was going over the bonnet deep.

Sorry for the off topic hijack.

sorry srb i didn't go on snow trip, mine was from other water crossings. although i have done almost the same depth as these guys it was for far less time than they were in there. I have seen the footage of those HC trips and i reckon one or two inches more and they will start needing propellers as their next accessory.

not sure if there is a more appropriate thread for this stuff but a great topic to be discussed with so many now doing some pretty gnarly water crossings and more to come this year in HC.

[Cowboy Dave]

I had my valve siliconed up by the guys that installed the snorkel. The only time I've found water in the airbox was from sitting in a car wash without the engine running. Mind you I haven't taken mine to the extreme that these high country boys have (and I hope not to). With the combination of heat and airflow I can't imagine it would take long for mine to dry out though.

With the safari, with the engine at idle, you can actually feel air coming out the back of the ram head so they're diagrams about water being pushed out the back may have some truth to them in terms of rain coming in.

I've seen it suggested that the safari ram head has the advantage that you can rotate it to face the back which you can't do on the TJM. No idea if there is any validity to that theory nor have I actually seen anyway who bothered to do it. An extra thing to contemplate though.

[al coholic]

I have a TJM, it was installed professionally (supposedly ) by TJM penrith before they closed down.

I had as much water in my air box as Ag9111, who installed his own. So by the looks of things, there is one of the joints inside the guard letting water in on deeper crossings.
I have the drain plug sealed up....should only be this way IMO if you have a snorkel fitted.....otherwise what's the point?? (although it might of helped mine to be unsealed on that last crossing )

As far as ARB vs Chinese copies goes.....no one can say for sure that ARB snorkels won't crack or breakdown over the years can they??
ARB are market leaders because of the $$$$ they throw at advertising and marketing.....not because their products are head and shoulders above the rest!
They are same quality gear as every other Aussie manufacturer of 4x4 accessories, some Chinese companies aren't far behind.

[al coholic]

Ok, thanks everyone. I will be getting it installed as I have the mechanical aptitude of a mule. Saying that, with a ARB being as easier install I will go with that for piece of mind.

mate, I wouldn't rely on ARB to do the job right either, plenty of unhappy customers out there from dodgy installs, not just snorkels either, they are as bad as the rest.

If it were me, I would buy the snorkel you want and take it to a independent 4x4 workshop.....much better chance of getting it done correctly.

Don't just buy a safari cause it's easier for someone else to install either......buy a safari cause you WANT it

[Kegsy]

I've got the ironman snorkel. I have the drain un-sealed, if water gets in its gotta get out...

In the future I'll seal it up, and fit a PTC bulk head fitting with a length of clear hose and a drain tap. Just drain the box if you see any water, pretty easy huh?

As per Heli's post, we did some serious crossings and my airbox had the tiniest of water in the bottom even with the box un sealed. Seriously it was like a shot glass full. Sweet F A.

Pretty happy with that.

[snowman]

Don't just buy a safari cause it's easier for someone else to install either......buy a safari cause you WANT it

two of you have stated that two airteks may have sub par installations due to the difficulty in installation access.........two pretty good reasons in my opinion to consider the safari.

Alco - Safari have been building these for many years - i am comfortable they know what they are doing. Again though i think snorkels are 90% installation when considering reliability.

If you cant stand the look of the Safari then don't buy it. you have to look at it every time you get in the car.

[al coholic]

Safari have been building these for many years - i am comfortable they know what they are doing. Again though i think snorkels are 90% installation when considering reliability

I realise how long Safari have been making snorkels for.........this doesnt mean there are not other companies that are just as good....


Tell me Snowie.......why didnt you buy a Hilux?? Why don't you have Coopers tyres?? Cause they are both the best products that money can buy and nothing else compares right
Or is it because there are equally good products out there like the Triton?? and like your Mickey Thompson tyres??
I never said Safari/ARB are not any good.......I said there are equally as good products out there.....
Yes mine and Garth TJM snorkels had the most water in the airbox.....but plenty of others who don't have a TJM snorkel had water as well. We are still to find out exactly where the water got in....so only guessing it is due the install procedure.
The only one i know of that was bone dry was Ken's $150 ebay snorkel that you bagged earlier......hmmmm, might break down in years to come (this is speculation at best) but at least he wont have water in the engine in the meantime


And all i said to old mate was dont buy the Safari because of the ease of installation...he has to like the look of it and be comfortable with the price of the Safari.
Remember he is getting someone else to install it, which is where i also said i think it would be best to take it to an independent 4x4 workshop....I would think you have a much higher chance of these guys doing a proper job than TJM or ARB franchises.
If he was installing himself......then yes, ease of installation could well be a factor in the decision......