The Automatic Transmission - talk shit thread

[snowman]

i am prepared to be told but i dont see how the torque converter multiplies the power that is what the gearbox is for isn't it.....

[scubapro]

Storm I spoke to the mob in Melbourne some time ago.

They are willing to have a look at the Triton but need a donor ute for a couple of days to check out what is possible.

I would gladly let them have mine but as I live in Sydney it is not possible. Maybe someone in Melbourne could give them his/hers to look at.

[Longranger1]

i am prepared to be told but i dont see how the torque converter multiplies the power that is what the gearbox is for isn't it.....

Say the engine speed is 2500rpm and the vehicle is loaded so that the torque converter output shaft is only doing 1250rpm then there is a torque increase at the output side of the TC. Sort of like a reduction gear effect. There are some losses though.
This is why you can't beat an auto for pulling a boat and trailer up a ramp. Check out wiki for a better explanation.

The torque converter doesn't multply power (that would be in the realms of over-unity) - only torque. If it were 100% efficient, then within reason if the engine rpm was 2500rpm and TC output was only 1250rpm, then the output power(at the TC end) would remain the same if the TC output doubled the engine torque (but at half engine speed).
Hope this helps. It is a little confusing.

[Storm Trooper]

Storm I spoke to the mob in Melbourne some time ago.

They are willing to have a look at the Triton but need a donor ute for a couple of days to check out what is possible.

I would gladly let them have mine but as I live in Sydney it is not possible. Maybe someone in Melbourne could give them his/hers to look at.

surely we have melbourne triton owners with auto boxes.....

might have to organize a week off tell the wife its a holiday and head to melbourne.... go shopping with the wife and tell her the triton is getting a service.....

[snowman]

Storm I spoke to the mob in Melbourne some time ago.

They are willing to have a look at the Triton but need a donor ute for a couple of days to check out what is possible.

I would gladly let them have mine but as I live in Sydney it is not possible. Maybe someone in Melbourne could give them his/hers to look at.

surely we have melbourne triton owners with auto boxes.....

might have to organize a week off tell the wife its a holiday and head to melbourne.... go shopping with the wife and tell her the triton is getting a service.....

there is the 2 4 speed boxes - easy select and the super select box and now the new 5 speed.

make sure it is the SS 4 speed stormy..... although i think you have the easy select?

[tokirky]

[quote="tokirky"]For the guys in Brisvagas, why dont we get together and compare oil pressure's in
boxs with and without a cooler????

its a starting point for a mod or two???

I have a brand new gauge that reads to 400psi (28bar) i dont know what STD is though.


I am still on this, to much work and not enough play.... anyway yesterday I went to check the line pressure in my auto
and after finding the spot didn't have the adaptor to suit. Its 8mm X 1.25 and in the kit they gave me two 6mm ones
So when I get that sorted Ill be back on it.

Then we can have a big shed day and check everything out. I have compression gauges for pet and diesel engines, fit
LR tanks, Double DINs, diff breathers......might be a whole week end

PS. anyone know or can find std line pressure??

[momo]

.

[momo]

I've spoken with the guys from Wholesale Autos a few times and sent them vids of how my Challenger 5 speed behaves. They say that there can be different TCs in every model variant using the same gearbox/engine but the TCs vary accordingly to optimise emmisions/driveability/smoothness/weight or whatever.

I was informed that the pressure difference idea with/without a cooler is ,erm, plain rubbish. I believed him.

I find the 5 speed shifts fine and changes smoothly without flaring etc. but while a standing stall gives me approx 2400RPM when driving it won't go less than 3000RPM at full power even changing early in manual mode. This makes it feel 'slippy' and I think hurts economy. In D auto mode it seems to prefer to choose a higher gear and just slip the revs up. Mitsu told me its behaving fine and local auto mobs can't explain how its possible for it to do it but who knows what is really going on in there especially with the computer controlled aspects of the transmission incl. TC (pulsing lockups etc.)

I might be getting some custom gear made from Wholesale Autos, and as they are Triton 5 speed owners I have aroused their curiousity. I expect to hear back soon but I've started to wonder if its too big a gamble to see what difference can be made for the $$, maybe tax time will be good to me and I can convince the accountant spending a little more on the car is ok. Its a tough choice being the guinea pig though

[4wd26]

We look forward to hearing about the results.
would be nice to hear some feedback on the 4 speed- as there have been quite a few people make inquiries of Wholesale Autos, but I don't know of anyone that has gone through with the modifications.

I guess the more people that make inquiries that may encourage them to develop something???

So has anyone got any feedback on the auto boxes yet?

[snowman]

interesting Momo.

although i have not done anything recently i can basically say the same as you regarding increased RPM in lower gears. it will run up to approx 2400RPM and hold RPM there while the speed increases until they 'match' and then they both increase as you accelerate further. it just feels wrong and a waste of power.

i note your comments from Wholesale regarding the cooler. in one respect it is good as it means i can probably keep as is (i dont want to lose the cooler) but it means it is not part of the fix. others here may want to add a cooler so that is encouraging.

my issue is i have the four speed so not the same gearbox.

i was going to 'bypass' the cooler and see if it had any effect. i probably still will to rule this out as a solution/problem.

keep us posted.

P.S. i also hear that there is another MY09 auto owner out there who has owned a previous ML model (auto) and id now suffering these symptoms that they did not have in the earlier model. remember the MY09 has the superselect version of the 4 speed. Not sure how this varies much from the Easy Select. keep in mind the MY09 only had an auto cooler for about 6 months before it was removed from production.....

[tokirky]

[quote="snowman"]

i was going to 'bypass' the cooler and see if it had any effect.
i probably still will to rule this out as a solution/problem.


I have tested the line pressure of 4 speed boxes with and without a cooler and they are the same @ idle, 1K and 2k
I have the (psi) results at work, but i am on hol's for 2 weeks.

Its 'NOT' going to be a simple - cheap fix......

[borngeek]

Will be interested in those results when you are back tokirky! (as well as how the testing was done)

[Homer]

Yeah that's all well and good with the trundler engine, but what about a proper motor that revs past 2K?

[daryn]

Homer, please refrain from double posting, you have enough as it is.

[tokirky]

Will be interested in those results when you are back tokirky! (as well as how the testing was done)

Testing is easy just put it in drive and rev it with your foot on the brakes........with the gauge attached of course.
The hose is long enough to sit in the drivers seat to read the gauge.

If Homer feels a little left out I will test his 'pretender' to compare with the big boys.....

* RE-read my post above I made a stuff up - edited right now.

[Homer]

Bugger hot pants...that is a big typo I had a warm comfortable feeling after your original post

All good mate, we'll get there in the end. Will be handy when you guys move in up the road

[borngeek]

Thanks tokirky

No it wont be 'cheap' it will be a valve kit from wholesale autos in VIC.

I have contact with them, the kit is in dev (I believe for both ML 4 speed and MN 5 speed)

Here is a snip of info from a email and some pdf's and a vid of a recent advert in 4wd action

Enjoy

<snip>
Hi it's Rodney here from Wholesale Automatics,

We are currently developing this transmission for the Triton and should have
full Options list available shortly.

You have also been added to our "Customers in Waiting Program" and will be
contacted as soon as this option becomes available.
</snip>

links
pdf1advert
pdf2advert
youtube advert

[tokirky]

[quote="Homer"]Bugger hot pants...

Hot pants....I'll have to keep our camping trips to summer time now

[Homer]

Bugger hot pants...

Hot pants....I'll have to keep our camping trips to summer time now

you know what they do to me

[tokirky]

Bugger hot pants...

Hot pants....I'll have to keep our camping trips to summer time now

you know what they do to me

You petrol sniffers are all the same

[tokirky]

Here's the Auto line pressures I got from my ML Diesel 4 sp box.

In nuetral
idle - 50psi
1 K - 50psi
2 K - 45psi

In Drive
idle - 40psi
1 K - 70psi
2K - 70psi

I didn't go any higher than 2ooo rpm cause i was afraid of my brake foot slipping and going over the edge of the HIGH hoist...That would be embarrassing and expensive

[daryn]

Thanks tokirky

No it wont be 'cheap' it will be a valve kit from wholesale autos in VIC.

I have contact with them, the kit is in dev (I believe for both ML 4 speed and MN 5 speed)

Here is a snip of info from a email and some pdf's and a vid of a recent advert in 4wd action

Enjoy

<snip>
Hi it's Rodney here from Wholesale Automatics,

We are currently developing this transmission for the Triton and should have
full Options list available shortly.

You have also been added to our "Customers in Waiting Program" and will be
contacted as soon as this option becomes available.
</snip>

links
pdf1advert
pdf2advert
youtube advert

ANy further word Geek ?

[snowman]

ok while it is fresh in my head......

I spoke to Rodney from Wholesale auto's today.

They have MN in development as they own one or two (5 speed)...but currently no ML version.

Please note the pricing below i have indicated was over the phone VERY rough guesstimates for ML due to currently NO DEVELOPMENT. Contact Wholesale auto's for MN pricing if you are interested.

This post is more for ML 4 speed guys as it needs development.

To do an ML he needs a full vehicle (not just a gearbox) for at least 5 working days.
They use this vehicle to measure, build, test, etc etc.
The donor vehicle owner must commit to purchasing the valve body upgrade, lock up kit and the temp sender unit as well as an external oil cooler. I did advise that to my knowledge all ML models had an external cooler of some sort. [tech check to cash register one please ]


The valve body upgrade will be in the order of $895-$995 supply only
The temp kit is $265 (supply only)
The lock out kit will vary on final dependent on electrickery and be between $200-$495)

On a sad note there is NOTHING that can be done about the crappy (early) shift points as this is ECU controlled and his worldwide search has not found anyone able to modify this programming (fk fk fk ). The shit points are based on multiple criteria including RPM, throttle location, motor and g'box temps and plenty other variables i have forgotten.

you cannot use the Lock-up in normal driving - it is for decent control only.

[4wd26]

should be noted that there are MN models out there with 4 speed autos as well

so anyone with a 4 speed like to be a test mule?

[borngeek]

a Victorian with a auto... surely

//Snowie, does the test mule get free labour/install?