ULTIMATE SUSPENSION

[clarke-glxr]

ultimate gear needs to make its way perth!!

[gowie77]

Hi all. I have read many threads in relation to suspension lifts on the triton and before I go ahead with my lift I was hoping someone could answer a few questions for me. I have a 2007 GLX-R Triton, its a 3.2L diesel, manual and as many would be aware it has the split tailshaft set up.

I am 99% sure I am going to get the ultimate suspension lift kit and go with the raised height comfort springs in the front and back, along with the Aussie Ryder shocks to suit.

From my understanding when you lift the car above the standard height the angle of the split tail shaft changes and this normally produces shuddering at low speeds from the centre bearing. To over come this you need to bring the tailshaft angle back to where it originally was. Some use wedges under the leaf spring, spacers under the gearbox, some flip the centre bearing, some lower the centre bearing mount and some do a combination of all of these things.

As I understand its unavoidable to do anthing about the changes in angles on the CV joints and this will probably lead to the CV joints needing replacing more often, this I can live with. The thing I dont want to happen is have a centre bearing fail under speed or have the tailshaft fail etc.

When I fit my lift kit I want to have everything all ready to go as I dont want to wait around trying some things one weekend and some things the next, I want it all done in the one weekend. It was my intentions to buy the tailshaft spacer at the same time as buying the ultimate suspension, do people think this is a good idea or a waste of money? It was also my intentions to buy a spare centre bearing and modify it so when its bolted in place it sits lower as someone else has done.

I was intending to do the following, tape a section of RHS to the front tailshaft section, then tape a section of RHS to the rear tailshaft section. Then I will weld other sections of RHS under the tailshaft crossmember (not to it) to join the 2 pieces of RHS which are on the tailshafts. This will all be done one a flat surface and will give me the exact angle at which the tailshaft normally sits. Then I will fit my lift kit and hold the welded RHS in place to see the difference in the angles. After this I will try different things to see how I can go about getting that angle back to normal, I will install the tailshaft spacer and see what it does. Try wedges under the leaf spring, spacers under the gearbox etc and see what it does each time. I will also try flipping the bearing over. If none of these things bring the angle back to normal I will remove the original centre bearing and install the modified one I would have already made and then see how that goes.. Only after trial and error of trying all these things and getting the tailshafts aligned to where they orignally were will I then take it for a test drive and see how it all goes.

Sorry for the long post, but does this sound like a logical thing to do?? I just like to have all bases covered before I start to modify the car.

Thanks for all those that read this and are able to offer advice.

[ultimate]

Hi Gowie,

Thank you for your questions.

The drive line vibration is an inherent problem with the ML Tritons. It tends to affect some vehicles more than others. We have had vehicles come in standard with the vibration, some not develop it and some get a really bad vibration into 2nd gear. The tail shaft is simply too short and the centre bearing mount is too high. The procedures you listed above do help minimize the shudder but the only true fix is modifying the centre bearing mount as listed in brett05's thread.

All of our springs are built with castor wedges which realign the rear diff to reduce the severity of the tail shaft angle. The spacers extend the tail shaft to reduce the movement during axle tramp so the vibration is also reduced. These two methods seem to work the best on most vehicle for a significant reduction. You can try dropping the gear box but you can’t get too much adjustment here because of the centre bearing mount. We were looking into modified centre bearings but they are pretty difficult to remove and refit without the proper equipment. It wasn't something we wanted to send out and the labour cost made it impractical to do locally. I can supply a centre bearing though if you want to have a crack at it.

If you are concerned with the vibration, fitting the tail shaft spacer and rotating the centre bearing on install is the most practical option. If it is still an issue after this, I would look at gearing the cross member mod engineered.

We have raised a lot of ML Tritons over the last few years and have seen no evidence of accelerated wear on the centre bearings. I have actually seen more gearbox mounts go on unmodified Tritons before the centre bearing. Regular inspections when you do a service would provide enough warning and time to replace the mount if needed. They are pretty solid and I don't think you will have a problem. When they do wear out, only the rubber goes which will cause a bigger vibration and knocking noise. The actual bearing is encased in a metal bracket so nothing catastrophic would happen as the result of the rubber wearing out.

[Mongrel]

Brendan,

Does this issue affect MNs also?

Cheers
Mongrel

[daryn]

If you have Super Select you more than likely have a single piece driveshaft not like the ML Easy Selects which have a two piece driveshaft.

One piece = no shudder.
Two piece = shudder with lift.

So Mongrel, get underneath and verify that you have the one piece and all should be good.

[ultimate]

This doesn't usually affect the MN. I think we have only had one develop a shudder and it was fitted with a 2 piece tail shaft. The very early MNs came out with a mixture of 1 and 2 piece shafts, than all 1 piece and now it looks like most are coming out with a 2 piece but not having the same problems (They have changed the lengths). In most cases it is only minimal anyway.

[gowie77]

Cheers for the response Brendan, I emailed you some similar questions the other day directly but thought you might be busy. No need to reply to my email now Once I have the money together I will be placing my order... If you say that the tailshaft is too short then I guess I will just order the tailshaft spacer at the same time and fit it. I think I will make up that steel section as I mentioned so I can document what changes each thing does and then I will report back for others..

Last night I was googling away and found that the shudder happens in other cars (BT50/Ford Ranger) also and I came across something which I thought you might all like to know. After reading your response Brendan about the centre bearing rubber maybe this seems like a logical thing to do also??

"Before fitting a new centre bearing fill the rubber boot full of sikaflex, apparently, the bearing isnt failing, its the rubber boot around it that gives up. So fill the rubber full of sikaflex a few days before fitting, and you should be good."

When you continue to read on about a guy who lifted a hilux he said he was having to change his centre bearing every 6 months. Then when he filled the rubber boot with sikaflex the bearing hasn't been changed in 2 years. Anyone heard of this before. It might be worth trying and could possibly eliminate some of the shudder???

[Mongrel]

Thanks Daryn,

Yep - I have Super Select.

I might stick my head under and have a look later.

[ultimate]

@ Gowie

Drive line vibration has occurred in many 4WD's. The worst one off the top of my head was probably the SWB Patrols. Any lift over 40mm would create such a bad vibration that it's been known to destroy engine mounts. A lot of guys have spent thousands trying to eliminate it through the way of double cardan joints and spacers with no real success. It's just something which comes with the vehicle.

The rubber is designed as the weak point in most of the mounts. Sure you can make it thicker or stronger with sikaflex, but it may cause bigger problems in the long run. You do need to maintain movement in the mounts so I would actually advise against it. See how you go with the lift and tail shaft spacer first. If you need to modify anything else, than a modified centre bearing or the cross member mod would be the best option. (Speak to your local engineer's first though re transport regulations).

[gowie77]

Ordered my Ultimate Suspension today so now the worst part.... waiting for it to arrive all the way over to WA. I can see myself pulling and all nighter and installing it once I pick it off, not sure if I could wait until the weekend but I will try. Cheers for the call today Brendan to sort it all out.

[trouble]

I drove the red ARB Triton the other day (long story) and it has a bad vibration in 1st and 2nd, mentioned this to the Manager and he said the centre bearing in shot and needs replacing.................yeah he was not wrong, I thought the Triton was going to fall apart sometimes!!

[bobtriton]

I wish I have an Ultimate distirbuitor in Mexico, those spring and shock conbination give only good news here.

[ultimate]

We can always export to Mexico. I seem to be sending a fair bit of gear to the Caribbean lately so I'm sure I can work something out for you

[andyj]

Good on you Brendan keep all the NTN family happy hope you can work out a deal for bob

[Ramo]

This doesn't usually affect the MN. I think we have only had one develop a shudder and it was fitted with a 2 piece tail shaft. The very early MNs came out with a mixture of 1 and 2 piece shafts, than all 1 piece and now it looks like most are coming out with a 2 piece but not having the same problems (They have changed the lengths). In most cases it is only minimal anyway.

Hi Brendan, I have an MN 2010 model with a one piece tailshaft (manual) I have a 40 mm lift from Iron Man and have a vibration between 120-135. Any ideas why and is there a fix? Many thanks in anticipation.

[Cowboy Dave]

Ramo, Brendan is on a trip at the moment and unlikely to answer this post for probably more than a week. Others may chime in later. There is a whole thread about shudder in MNs though. Several users (me included) have had a shudder at high speeds since the day we drove our utes off the dealership floor. Did you ever test at those speeds before the 40mm lift?

[fridgie]

120-135

I want your speed limits

[Ramo]

Cowboy Dave, Ive beenso busy that I havn't had a chance to do anything, but th vibration just doesn't go away.Ihave decided to start by making an inclinometer( to buy one is over 200 bucks!) which I wil use to measure the propshaft angles to see if the propshaft is within limits.If it the angles are correct then it can only be the propshaft balance that is out. The problem is I live in a remote town called Carnarvon in WA and the nearest town is 500k's away otherwise its Perth which is 1000k's
Thats why I can test at those speeds fridgie!
I have to admit I can't remember if I noticed the vibration when I had stock suspension.I probably did, but because of the softer bushes it would have been less noticable. You tend to focus more on rumbles or vibrations when youv'e just had a suspension change, and I noticed it straight away.
I had hoped someone else would have had a fix by now for the MN's

[gowie77]

Before I fitted my lift kit on the weekend I made up this little jig to see what the angle was between the front and rear tailshaft where it joins at the centre bearing. It was 179 degrees. After the lift I didn't make another jig but I would assume it was about 171 degrees. I fit the tailshaft spacer and it made a slight difference, maybe got it to 172 degrees. Next I flipped the centre bearing and I think it would have gone to about 175 degrees. Next I loosened off the bolts where the gearbox cross member is and jacked it up until it was 179 degrees, measure it to be 5mm so i made a 5mm spacer for each side. Once all bolted back down it was now about 177 degrees. I have a very very slight shudder, one I am happy with, but I am going to pack the gearbox up another 1-2mm and see what it does out of curiosity.

[Godsilla]

[quote="contact"]i ran through the gawlers and out to gairdener (amongst other places) ive been running ultimate blue + struts up front and stock glx + ultimate shocks out the back.

with the camper + load on the ute probably sat slightly lower at the rear (have a look at the pics). i felt the set up was well matched the front carrying a steel bar and winch and the load on + trailer

ive been really happy with the improvement in handling, some initial local instal probs but since that its all been good.[quote="contact"]



Hi Contact, just wondering how the stock rear leaf and the ultimate damper combo goes on, any problems fitting? And also, do you still get the rear sitting around 50mm higher than the front? With the blue coils I'd have tought both ends would sit at about the same height. Anyway, love to hear from you. Cheers.

[manrajf]

Im currently saving up for a full ultimate kit, think im gonna be the first one in the uk with that system on a triton

Raj

[mattz]

Raj. You won't be disappointed and it will be well worth the hassle of organising the shipping to get it there.

[Kegsy]

He won't have to organise anything, Brendan will have to work that out ha ha.

[bikeman]

What can i say, after changing my modified Toyota Prado for a MN Triton in dec and driving for a few months I was becoming more and more dissapointed, the ride was terrible, way too soft, and the damping was almost non-existant. How can such a big manufacturer get it so wrong. I only had about 200kg all up in the back, that was too much for it. I decided after reading the various comments on ultimate Supension to order the 2" comfort lift. It arrived had it fitted in no time, got the wheels realigned. Wow! what a difference I now enjoy driving the triton. It seems that the majority of people buying these vehicles end up swapping the suspension for something that works, it would be so much easier if the likes of Mitsubishi put a quality kit in to start with. Anyway a huge thanks to Ultimate for helping me enjoy my new car.

[Mooons]

Everything's built to a price Bikeman