To update/reflash ECU or not

[TRITON73]

I'm about to go in for my 60klm service next week and am contemplating whether I should have the ECU update done.

The Tri has only had one update since new as I installed a Chip at 4000klm's and have requested no ECU update be done at service intervals.
I'm hoping the update might lower EGT's as mine seem to run hotter than most at cruising speeds. eg 550c at 110klm.

Has anyone found EGT changes with ECU updates?
Thanks
2.5 MN
3" system
Chipit 215

[Tony]

There has been changes reported in the past. I cant personally verify this, but one apparently had a clutch slipping problem fixed by refashing it with a torque limitation of some sort.
My experience was a noticeable overall loss of power etc but did have a manifold change and updated SCV at the same time.

I have been told no real updates have been released (unless recent) for a while now so your more likely looking "relearn" than update. SQL can only be a good thing. Pulls everything back into line in effect.

I doubt it will lower the EGT's as the 2.5 were designed to run hot so combat the carbon problem.
ambiguous this, as high combustion temps produce Nox. Some how the combustion temps stay low and the EGT's rise. Looks like we use more fuel, have a cooler combustion and higher EGT's to clean the emissions.
I know of some stokers that see over 750c

My advise would be drop the chip out or at least go back to the factory tune so the MUT3 can do its job and not confuse the poor bugger on the end of it.

If your still concerned about the EGT's after, it may be possible to do a custom tune to pull more boost in to lower them under cruise. This is difficult to do remotely as can get very close to the point where the EGR system operates.

[TRITON73]

I wonder if the relearn will adjust to driving under towing conditions as I am about to embark on a trip around oz towing a 2T off road van.

Hope it can adjust to clutch slip as I can see it failing on this trip.

I'm still not convinced I should do the relearn as the car drives fine apart from running high temps under cruise conditions.

[gregned]

After reading Tony's post I decided to search on the low combustion temp High EGT.
Could it be true that the reflash retards injection timing?

This Guy was observing High EGT's with a partially obstructed filter, which were lowered when he installed a new one.

As with any internal combustion engine the timing of the ignition is important to gain maximum energy from the fuel and air mixture.

Assuming that timing is non optimised/retarded from optimum (not necessarily factory setting)

This is how it works:

Advanced Injection Timing results in:

1) Hotter Combustion Temperatures.
2) Colder EGT.
3) More Power.
4) Decreased fuel consumption.

Counter Intuitive I know however the reason is not complicated. The earlier fuel is injected the more pressure will be generated/heat and more complete combustion. The extra combustion energy is converted into useful work rather than being partially blown out the exhaust.

Therefore Retarded Timing results in:

1) Lower Combustion Temperatures
2) Hotter EGT.
3) Reduced Power
4) Increased fuel consumption.

Rather than pushing the piston down with maximum force the energy goes straight out the exhaust.

And this is why modern emission compliant engines have factory set retarded timing, or the ECU deliberately retards the timing.

(Keep in mind thats retarded from optimum)

The main method of controlling NOX emissions is retarding the timing giving a High EGT but a low combustion temp. High combustion temps create NOX, not high EGT. (chemically just not hot enough compared to combustion temps)

Most tuning chips actually advance the timing and generally void the emission requirements. (AFAIK, But Please correct me on that)

CONCLUSION For my 2.8 GU: (Applicable to 4.2 Owners as well)

A blocked fuel filter can retard your ignition timing, and therefore the standard fuel pump relies on the correct amount of fuel to deliver the optimum timing to a measurable extent. If the flow of fuel is restricted or insufficient at higher revs timing will be less than optimal.

A lift pump can ensure that timing is correct across the entire rev range of the engine.

[Tony]

Great post gregnad. It even males sense too.

That pretty much nails the concept of reducing Nox with the EGR mixed in.

This theory is why we saw pollution cams turn up in the 80's and lower compression ratio's in the earlier days.

A lot of these problems are overcome with the introduction of variable valve timing and multi valve heads.

[gregned]

So I guess ECUTEC can fix up the timing issue?
They also said that they can control the intake butterfly, Ill get mine left open apart from shut down for max engine braking.
Would that be your recommendation too? Tony or am I missing something?

[fraz91]

I would have thought that a closed butterfly would have provided better engine braking, as it reduces the amount of air available to the engine?

[gregned]

I thought the compression stroke did the work?
Could be wrong though?

[Longranger1]

Closed throttle butterfly = reduced engine braking due to less air being able to be compressed.

I'm running an egr blank, Ecutek tune, 2-3/4" exhaust and a neat egr substitution mod and It would be very rare to see 550. At 100-110 km/h it sits around the 350 mark.

Getting good economy and performance so woe betide any dealer who attempts to reflash mine.

The beauty of Ecutek is the ability to adjust injection timing as well as a bunch of other things.

[TRITON73]

Most tuning chips actually advance the timing and generally void the emission requirements. (AFAIK, But Please correct me on that one

Nice one.

Do we know if the Chipit chip can be programmed to adjust timing? Or adjust rail pressure only?
What i have noticed is the old rail mod folder tunes run cooler egt for me at cruise but climb quicker on acceleration. Which makes sense. I just need to work out if this is due to higher boost levels at cruise and or or timing adjustments.

Removing the chip lowers my egt by 100c at cruise but still climb to 650 when pushed hard.

I will replace my fuel filter to start with and compare results.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk

[Longranger1]

I would like to know how an intercepter chip can actually advance injection timing since it only modifies a signal from the ecu. Pretty tricky if it can preempt this .

[Tony]

Rail chip pretty much does fuel pressure only, the timing is left to the vehicles ECU. The new injection module does duration of injection. Or you can run both together.

For any aftermarket chip to properly adjust injection timing, it will require a crank angle sensor input.

[fraz91]

For any aftermarket chip to properly adjust injection timing, it will require a crank angle sensor input.

Would that be something worth looking into? I suppose if you're going to incorporate the crank-angle sensor, you might as well do a throttle position plugin as well, as that way the chip will be able to adjust the injection timing and fuel rail pressure accordingly.

[Mattstruck]

Starting to sound like the Ecutek tune rather than a chip guys

Otherwise there will be 10 plugs to bypass to install the chip

[Tony]

As matt has said, they have tried to keep it simple till now.

Chip it have looked into the other options, I cant say if anything will ever eventuate at this stage.

[gregned]

Interesting reading here.
Some guy has done a thesis on mods to a diesel engine and includes a section on intake throttling too.
http://www.feldmanbd.com/Thesis.pdf

[Kegsy]

For any aftermarket chip to properly adjust injection timing, it will require a crank angle sensor input.

Would that be something worth looking into? I suppose if you're going to incorporate the crank-angle sensor, you might as well do a throttle position plugin as well, as that way the chip will be able to adjust the injection timing and fuel rail pressure accordingly.

Its called HKS FCON, and it will empty your wallet lol. But it can make damn good numbers