All MN Tritons need engineers' approval for suspension?

[4wd26]

So when are you coming out with a 4" kit for the ML Triton?

I looked at your hilux safety vid and you have a nice triton (wide wheel arches etc) in your banner.

Fess up....

[ultimate]

The banner isn't bad hey. it gets a lot of comments. hopefully though we will have a kit soon. Just got to work a few other things out first.

[V-Man]

I'm not sure that this law has been passed right around Australia. I'm waiting on a new MN (arrived at the dealer today so hopefully I won't have to wait too much longer) and was interested in what restrictions are in place regarding ESC, suspension and tyre size in Victoria. I called Vicroads this afternoon and was told that as long as I don't exceed their standards for tyre width (25mm greater than the stock tyres) and height (15mm greater diamater) then all is legal, lifting the suspension within their guidelines is OK too.

I asked if there was any new, or special requirements for vehicles fitted with stability control, traction control etc. and I was told that Vicroads had no specific guidelines, however, I should check with Mitsubishi to see if they new of any technical issues arising from modifying the vehicle from standard.

I then called MMA and the dealer who were both unaware of anything specific. The dealer is going to call one of MMA's tech guys to double check, but as far as I can tell as long as I don't exceed the Vicroads guidelines I can still put on some better tyres and lift the new bus when she arrives.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonl ... 0/VSI8.pdf

[ultimate]

That's good to hear and I hope you’re right. NSW is known to be the hardest so I wouldn't be surprised if it's only our state. However I was told these laws came from the manufacturers themselves so it will be interesting to see what Mitsubishi say.

[bboughton]

What about MN Single Cab? Active Stability and Traction Control are only options. Ive got a single cab on the way without these options, therefore I need not worry?

Ben

[ultimate]

Yeah you will be fine. It's only applicable to vehicles with ESC (or 'Active stability control')

[QueenslandeR]

Looks like the MN owners have been scared off so far? Places who i've talked to so far say theres no problem with lifting them? Anyone else from qld looked into this yet?

[xmldog]

Sorry to drag up an old thread…
What is the full outcome of this, particularly in Victoria? I was looking to buy a single cab with ESC. Do these regulations mean that I would not be able to install a small lift or even decent tyres at a later date? I was hoping to get a new car and use it stock for now, then do these mods in a couple of years for a trip to the Cape.

[xmldog]

After a bit of reading I found on the hilux forum:

(on the newhilux forum)
by ultimate on Tue, 07 Sep 2010 3:16 +0000

We're a member of the 4WD industry council and have been working with the AAAA to fight all of the regulations. So far the results have been good and it is looking like we will be allowed 50mm suspension with out engineer's certificate. Nothing is official yet but the RTA is at least starting to listen. I'm also confident the ESC regs will be dropped but that fight will probably be a little bit drawn out. I'll update the forum officially once everything is finalised and we know exactly what is going to happen.

Looks like I will be waiting on this outcome now.

I finally thought I had decided on a car to purchase and someone throws in an off break. Once again our government seems ham fisted and narrow minded in implementing its poorly thought out agenda. I was thinking that ESC would be a good thing so the missus would be safer in the ute with its lighter rear. (The ute that is...)

[amanda]

We have an MN and are going ahead with the Ultimate suspension. If the law comes in we will already have our suspension and the ESC is not affected by the lift apparently.

[xmldog]

Cool, thanks. I must have miss-read the other posts, I thought that the law was already in place.

[mjwilmo]

Just read this regarding the Vehicle Standards regulations in NSW with regards to raising or lowering suspension (VSI 50 refers - http://www.australianimages.com.au/pdf/ ... hicles.pdf).

This from the RTA website:

Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) No 50 Raising and lowering vehicles was issued on 15 July 2009 by the Minister for Roads as part of a drive to help improve road safety in NSW.

The start date of VSI 50 has been deferred in order to provide industry and the community the opportunity to have input into the proposed changes.

A working group comprising industry, RTA and government representatives has been set up to discuss details and implementation arrangements for the VSI 50.

The working group met on August 12, to discuss options.

The RTA will investigate the options that arose from this meeting and make further determinations in due course.

The revised implementation date will be announced once the recommendations have been agreed.

The revised date will include a transition period to enable modification currently being made to vehicles to be completed. VSI 50 will be amended accordingly.

Inquiries may be directed to 1300 137 302 or by email to: Technical_Enquiries@rta.nsw.gov.au

View the Ministerial Media release

There are some pretty scary guidelines in VSI 50! Let's hope it doesn't get up.

[CairnsGSE]

Telstra have been running GVM uprades on almost all of there patrol utes with OME suspension ,complies with all factory warrantys and legal Australia wide. I have seen vehicle rego transfered from one state to another so like a lot of things its not what you know but who you are , as for stability control and tyres ,The sensors pick up changes in roll angle and tyre slip and adjust brake and power accordingly. Don't quality tyres and good suspension upgrades actualy help Matt .The system can't tell if you have a lift kit,there are no sensors checking bump stop clearences ,tyre dia or tread depth ,sensors pick up yaw , pitch and wheel speed. What happens on the twisty black top road 6 mths with no rain and first shower ,your all pointing backwards. I can't see how good tyres and stiffer suspension can detramentaly affect stability control ?

[Lethal_Leroy]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but im having trouble with deciphering the esc regulations for Victoria and this thread has been one that seems to have the people with knowledge discussing it. So has they're been an outcome what we can do to the mn triton (i.e max susspension height increase, tyre size increase) and does anyone have an official up to date government document to back it up. As all I've been able to find on the net is ambiguous.

Thanks in advance.

[chrisdoherty87]

Hi all triton owners out there. New to this so hope this works. Been looking on Internet about this subject and found some info. The way i read it you can change your tyre size by no more than -+15mm diameter and raise your vehicle by -+50mm from wheel centre to wheel arch. If you raise your vehicle the max hieght you can get is 57.5mm. Here is a link for more info (http://www.australianimages.com.au/pdf/ ... hicles.pdf). Most states seem to be the same and this is in relation to esc. My new triton is on order so i very interested in this topic (MN GLXR with diff lock)

Hope this info is corect & helpfull

I have just lifted my 2013 MN and before I did it I researched and found the newest revision of the QLD transport National Code Of Practice regarding modifications to vehicles fitted thigh ESC and the above is also what I found. Can go up to 50mm higher in suspension without engineering as long as you don't modify the factory pickup points I.E drop shackles, and can also go up go 50mm body lift with engineering approval. Can remember about tyre size sorry.

[mitzikatzi]

QLD regs here G 19.0

My understanding these are the same as the National Ones.

If i read correctly Max 50mm increase in Tyre diameter, Max 50mm suspension lift. The combination of tyres and suspension must be below 75mm

Also from here it is 2011

Persons wishing to modify vehicles equipped with ESC must contact their Registration
Authority for further information and guidance

[Monkeyz]

In Victoria it is simple, if you have ESC you can NOT alter tyre dimensions or touch the suspension, there is even difficulty going from road tyres to AT's or MT's..This is stated in the fed laws and reiterated in state.

I have confirmed this 100% with Vic roads and a few engineers.

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4625

VSB 14 being the federal std..

"For modification codes contained in this Section of VSB 14, evidence should be obtained either
from the vehicle manufacturer or through testing to determine the impact on the ESC system.
To remain within the scope of this Section of VSB 14, a vehicle fitted with ESC must not be
modified if the operation of the ESC is affected unless the ESC system is adjusted accordingly."

my post in the lift thread links the relevant laws and the only legal way to mod a ESC vehicle... lucky for us Ultimate may have the solution for us soon..

Each state may add to a federal law but the fed law is the big one, I believe some states allow mods with ESC vehicles but technically the car is still unroadworthy as no state law may override a federal law.

But still screw it im going for a 2 inch lift and 265/70/17 mickey t's

Mojo..

[Lethal_Leroy]

That's the crux of the ambiguity

"to remain within the scope of this Section of VSB 14, a vehicle fitted with ESC must not be
modified if the operation of the ESC is affected unless the ESC system is adjusted accordingly."

Plenty of manufacturer's are doing tests to show their products don't affect the ESC, I've talked to suspension and tyre salesmen and been referred to tests and theoretical evidence to prove the safety of their products, and it seems plausible, even the service techs at my local Mitsubishi dealer is happy that improved suspension and 265/65 tyres will not affect the ESC, but in case something went wrong, who decides wether someones testing is valid and will you be covered by insurance.

[Monkeyz]

That's the crux of the ambiguity

"to remain within the scope of this Section of VSB 14, a vehicle fitted with ESC must not be
modified if the operation of the ESC is affected unless the ESC system is adjusted accordingly."

Plenty of manufacturer's are doing tests to show their products don't affect the ESC, I've talked to suspension and tyre salesmen and been referred to tests and theoretical evidence to prove the safety of their products, and it seems plausible, even the service techs at my local Mitsubishi dealer is happy that improved suspension and 265/65 tyres will not affect the ESC, but in case something went wrong, who decides wether someones testing is valid and will you be covered by insurance.

On the insurance front I rang my Insurer AAMI and put it all to them, the response I got once handed toa senior person was as long as I notify them of all modifications, and pay my premium they will insure my vehicle. So im happy with that response and they are willing to put it in writing...

Mojo..

[peterdeg]

On the insurance front I rang my Insurer AAMI and put it all to them, the response I got once handed toa senior person was as long as I notify them of all modifications, and pay my premium they will insure my vehicle.

Finally got around to ringing my insurer GIO.
"with the new policies (which you have) you don't have to notify us about modifications and accessories, it's all covered under the insured amount"

(Date and time of call noted on my policy doc just in case it ever comes down to a "but you said" situation)

[tcrow]

Hi all
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I have been tying to get my head around this as I am thinking about an Ultimate 2 inch lift and some new tyres. I have been doing some research and all the chatter seems to have gone cold since about May last year, is there any further development on the AAAA testing in the USA.
This whole topic seems a little off to me as VSB 14 only states that testing must be done and does not seem to outline any guidelines or regulations to which that should comply with, does that mean I can just go out and thrash around some backstreets to get the ASC kick in?
On another note the way the Bulletin is written could seriously limit the life of any ESC equipped vehicle on the road. Say for example the tyre manufacturer of the OEM fitted tyre ends their production of that series of tyre, or changes the tread pattern or compound, does that mean that once the tyres are worn and require replacement that there would be no tyre on the market that could be legally fitted to the vehicle. What about when the OEM stops supplying new parts for that model and you can only get after market shockers. I can not see how this is a sustainable regulation.

Cheers

[oldplodder]

I have a MN 2012.
Been thinking through the same issues, including my reading of VSB 14.
In the end, as far as I can see, it comes down to 2 points.
1. If you get pulled over by the police, is your car road worthy in their opinion?
2. If you have an accident, will the insurance company still cover you with the mods done to the vehicle?

As far as I can see, both sort of tie in to each other, but there could be differences. )
I have a feeling both depend on the actual person doing the check for a start.
So it comes down to the old story, how far are you willing to push the envelope?

Me, I walk a little on the conservative side, so running ATs of 245/75/16, and only a mild 50mm suspension lift.
I reason tyres need to be fit for service, therefore a range of tyres within the scopes are OK.

All very subjective. )

[busyman]

Sharpen up your pitchforks, this crap has to end.

[Joel]

In the case of an accident, if you have informed your insurance company of these mods (suspension and bigger tyres) and they are listed on your policy how could they refuse a claim? They have been informed of the changes and agreed to insure you. If they see it as more of a risk they can up their premiums but surely not refuse a claim?

[Cowboy Dave]

Some policies contain requirements that the vehicle be fit for registration. The insurer can't be expected to know that when you ring up and say I've just got some bigger tyres that means you've just put an unstable set of 35 inch muddies on your vehicle which makes it illegal to drive in some states. For the most part people are ringing up to add items they want insured, not tell the insurer of a modification that increases the insurer's risk.

9 times out of 10 I can't see it as likely to happen but for the guys who are doing body lifts, diff drops or other significant modifications that might impact on stability of the vehicle without engineering and so on there is a risk there to take into account. If you had a rollover and the insurer could point to a modification like that as likely to have increased the risk of a rollover then I think you could end up in trouble.

I know at my last renewal if I said I had a lift of 50mm or under I could get insurance whereas if I said it was greater than 50mm most of the internet insurance engines would spit the dummy and say I was outside their standard parameters and couldn't get a policy with them.