Spotlights

[DocBassett]

I think that's a reasonable price. The more info out there the better. I certainly appreciate the options as im sure others do. As long as you are happy too!! My HID lights ranged between $200- $800 each, so prices do vary, especially when you factor in freights, labour etc.

[NowForThe5th]

This thread has been moderated to remove advertising and off topic discussion.

Carry on, people.....

[NowForThe5th]

If you would like them modified to HID, they will come with his custom 70 watt ballasts which are his own custom brand and specifically built to his specifications which have a 5 second warm up, built in canbus, fully waterproof with internal igniters. These are true 70 watts not the Chinese ones on EBay claiming to be 70 watts which are just re stickered 50 watt ballasts.

I understand that these 75 watt ballasts are specifically built to your supplier's specification. This is most unusual, in fact an industry first for a retrofitter as far as I know (and I've been in the industry for around 5 years), given that it requires a significant investment in both tooling and in minimum production runs that the factory insists on in order to keep their costs under control. Only the biggest HID sellers in the US have had the kind of capacity and volume to make such an investment economic and much of their stuff is just rebranded, too.

As for the quoted ratings, again your supplier seems to have broken with the industry standard practice which is highly misleading. This is because ballasts are rated in two ways. 35 watt ballasts are rated on their output. So, although they consume around 42 watts their rating is 35 watts. These were the first ballasts available for automotive use and this practice has become standard. However, ballasts with higher ratings (which came on to the scene later) were rated on their input as the clever marketers looked for an advantage.

The actual light output you get from an HID system depends on the combination of both bulb and ballast. OEM quality bulbs & ballasts like Philips/Hella/Denso etc. can achieve around 90 lumens/watt while most Chinese aftermarket bulbs are in the 75-85 lumens/watt range. For 35 watt ballasts that are measured by their output to bulbs this will produce a typical output of 2700 - 3000 lumens. The more often quoted figure of 3200 lumens is with OEM bulbs but again is often used to inflate the supposed performance of the ballast or combination. For higher outputs, ballast losses through inefficiency are typically 20% for aftermarket although there are plenty that are much worse than that and only a few that are better.

So. your typical 75 watt ballast uses 75 watts but only puts out 80% of this, i.e. 60 watts. Using 80 lumens/watt this means that such a light will give a total of 4800 lumens.

I don't know where these ballasts of yours fit in and I'll reserve judgement until I've seen and tested some.

A 5 second warmup time is quite long compared to current technology which has claims as low as 1 second while good quality aftermarket are around 2-4 seconds to get to 80% (which looks like 100%). It should be noted though, that these are enormous gains over the 40 seconds that these high output ballasts took only a few years ago. Nevertheless, that is a long time that you're driving without full light.

Just as a comparison the Fyrlyt will produce 5000 lumens with instant on and a pair costs $600 retail with discount prices down to $530. Whiter light than most halogens and much better colour rendering index (so you can see the colour difference between that kangaroo and the similar shaped bush). Guess which driving lights I bought?

[Cowboy Dave]

As for the quoted ratings, again your supplier seems to have broken with the industry standard practice which is highly misleading. This is because ballasts are rated in two ways. 35 watt ballasts are rated on their output. So, although they consume around 42 watts their rating is 35 watts. These were the first ballasts available for automotive use and this practice has become standard. However, ballasts with higher ratings (which came on to the scene later) were rated on their input as the clever marketers looked for an advantage.

I'm assuming this means the industry standard approach is misleading - I can see how you might read it the other way but have seen some other material that leads me to interpret it this way.

[NowForThe5th]

Yes, the industry standard is misleading because people think they're getting lights that will give 75 watts output but in fact only give 60 watts.

There are potential problems with the other way, too. If ballasts were rated on output then there is the risk of overloading circuits. With inefficiency losses at 20% that's a lot of energy being tossed up in heat so the advantage of HID in terms of lumens/watt is actually lost.

Domestic electrical appliances are rated on input. A 2000 watt toaster uses 2000 watts and no-one cares that it is so inefficient that it takes twice as long to make your brekky as the one that is maybe only 1500 watts but is more efficient.

The situation is a bit different with lights because it's the output that people want. I've seen "75 watt" HIDs that are woeful and easily outperformed by a good quality 50 watt system using high quality components. I might sound like an ad for a certain light manufacturer but the adage that a light is the sum of its' parts is very true.

[MPGGLX-R]

Hi guys

It's great this got sorted out and thanks to those that did.

Chris and Mick:- What do you think of the X-Ray Vision 220 90 SS HID that run a 90w internal ballast? I know the lens is glass and the body is die-cast alloy would heat over a period of time degrade the reflector causing hazing with glass and possibly body issues too? Or is this a case of them stating they are 90w but really around 70-80w?

http://xrayvision.net/

It's amazing how far we have come in driving lights since LF came out in 1997.

Just had a look at the Fyrlyt and wow Someone did tell me these gents were part of LF's designers that became unhappy with LF direction and left designing their own product, but I've no idea if that is in fact correct.
Here is a link and the video's are great http://fyrlyt.com/home/4575614600

[NowForThe5th]

In my opinion it's all marketing driven development. The whole point is that you don't actually see more or better with brighter lights. Too many people simply don't get this but with so much light your eyes become literally overloaded and reduce the amount coming in.

Driving lights are not searchlights. Their function is to provide measured and evenly distributed light in front of the vehicle, not a wall of excessively bright light that actually blinds you to the distance.

As far as the actual lights are concerned, meh! ordinary. Plenty better out there. Glass lens breaks but the alloy body shouldn't cause too many issues.

Yes they probably are input rated.

[MPGGLX-R]

In my opinion it's all marketing driven development. The whole point is that you don't actually see more or better with brighter lights. Too many people simply don't get this but with so much light your eyes become literally overloaded and reduce the amount coming in.

Driving lights are not searchlights. Their function is to provide measured and evenly distributed light in front of the vehicle, not a wall of excessively bright light that actually blinds you to the distance.

As far as the actual lights are concerned, meh! ordinary. Plenty better out there. Glass lens breaks but the alloy body shouldn't cause too many issues.

Yes they probably are input rated.

Ok thanks Chris

When you say there are plenty better out there, could I ask you if it was your vehicle and you had to drive all night long for a living on terrible roads with lots of pot holes and wildlife what would you use and why?

[Cowboy Dave]

No doubt Chris will answer in due course but I know he's previously experimented with a retrofitted projector setup and obviously he's got the fyrlyts. Now he has a new Pajero I'm not sure - it may even come with factory HID.

Beyond the fyrlyts he's also previously said that he rates the Hella Rallye 4000 - which I remember since I bought his old set from him.

[MPGGLX-R]

No doubt Chris will answer in due course but I know he's previously experimented with a retrofitted projector setup and obviously he's got the fyrlyts. Now he has a new Pajero I'm not sure - it may even come with factory HID.

Beyond the fyrlyts he's also previously said that he rates the Hella Rallye 4000 - which I remember since I bought his old set from him.

I know nothing in technical terms of driving lights, but in watching and reading the information on the Fyrlyt website what they say and the reason behind their design does make sense. A lot of research and development have gone into them that's for sure and I agree 100% with light covers too, it has to take away light.

I remember when the Hella HID driving lights came out (predators I think they were called). $2000 per light

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah they (hella) have some pretty flash lights now too. I think Chris actually started a whole thread on the fyrlyts with some comparative testing so you might want to dig that one up for a read if you're interested.

[MPGGLX-R]

Yeah they (hella) have some pretty flash lights now too. I think Chris actually started a whole thread on the fyrlyts with some comparative testing so you might want to dig that one up for a read if you're interested.

Yes thank you, found it right here http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13722&hilit=fyrlyt

I'm thinking we need our very own NT shoot out

[NowForThe5th]

When you say there are plenty better out there, could I ask you if it was your vehicle and you had to drive all night long for a living on terrible roads with lots of pot holes and wildlife what would you use and why?

the Fyrlyt will produce 5000 lumens with instant on and a pair costs $600 retail with discount prices down to $530. Whiter light than most halogens and much better colour rendering index (so you can see the colour difference between that kangaroo and the similar shaped bush). Guess which driving lights I bought?

Fyrlyt.

Not HID, I know. But quite possibly the best all round light I've ever come across. Why?
- Clever design.
- Separate, replaceable components.
- Polycarbonate lens. Almost indestructible and simply replaced if necessary.
- Stylish, strong housing, but light so it doesn't vibrate.
- Quality reflector. Up there with Lightforce for reflector quality. Like a mirror. Streets ahead even of Hella.
- Innovative reflector design. What they've managed to do is create what is essentially a multi-focal reflector that is capable of casting two different beams by adjusting the focal point, without compromising either. World first and must have taken enormous development. Different to Lightforce which moves the light source off the focal point.
- Strong billet aluminium base. No movement or vibration. Looks good too.
- Xenophot bulb. Automotive bulbs are yellow by comparison and Osram have created a high wattage bulb with realistic life expectancy.
- Very good CRI. The bulb is of a family designed for use in photography and places like operating theatres where strong light that doesn't distort colour is essential. Perfect for use as a driving light.
- Very even light pattern. No streaks or hot spots yet light pattern is quite wide, near to that of the Hella spread beam.
- Good range. Not talking Hella Predator at 1500m but a solid 900m which is outstanding for a halogen light.
- Ability to adjust beam to give a wider pattern that would suit tighter winding roads.
- Instant on. No waiting for the bulb to warm up as with HID, you can have light when you want it.
- Flashing the lights does not destroy bulb life like HID.
- No electronics to go wrong. Ballasts not required.
- Price. $600 retail, I got mine for $530.

[MPGGLX-R]

When you say there are plenty better out there, could I ask you if it was your vehicle and you had to drive all night long for a living on terrible roads with lots of pot holes and wildlife what would you use and why?

the Fyrlyt will produce 5000 lumens with instant on and a pair costs $600 retail with discount prices down to $530. Whiter light than most halogens and much better colour rendering index (so you can see the colour difference between that kangaroo and the similar shaped bush). Guess which driving lights I bought?

Fyrlyt.

Not HID, I know. But quite possibly the best all round light I've ever come across. Why?
- Clever design.
- Separate, replaceable components.
- Polycarbonate lens. Almost indestructible and simply replaced if necessary.
- Stylish, strong housing, but light so it doesn't vibrate.
- Quality reflector. Up there with Lightforce for reflector quality. Like a mirror. Streets ahead even of Hella.
- Innovative reflector design. What they've managed to do is create what is essentially a multi-focal reflector that is capable of casting two different beams by adjusting the focal point, without compromising either. World first and must have taken enormous development. Different to Lightforce which moves the light source off the focal point.
- Strong billet aluminium base. No movement or vibration. Looks good too.
- Xenophot bulb. Automotive bulbs are yellow by comparison and Osram have created a high wattage bulb with realistic life expectancy.
- Very good CRI. The bulb is of a family designed for use in photography and places like operating theatres where strong light that doesn't distort colour is essential. Perfect for use as a driving light.
- Very even light pattern. No streaks or hot spots yet light pattern is quite wide, near to that of the Hella spread beam.
- Good range. Not talking Hella Predator at 1500m but a solid 900m which is outstanding for a halogen light.
- Ability to adjust beam to give a wider pattern that would suit tighter winding roads.
- Instant on. No waiting for the bulb to warm up as with HID, you can have light when you want it.
- Flashing the lights does not destroy bulb life like HID.
- No electronics to go wrong. Ballasts not required.
- Price. $600 retail, I got mine for $530.

Awesome and thank you!

[snowman]

When you say there are plenty better out there, could I ask you if it was your vehicle and you had to drive all night long for a living on terrible roads with lots of pot holes and wildlife what would you use and why?

the Fyrlyt will produce 5000 lumens with instant on and a pair costs $600 retail with discount prices down to $530. Whiter light than most halogens and much better colour rendering index (so you can see the colour difference between that kangaroo and the similar shaped bush). Guess which driving lights I bought?

Fyrlyt.

Not HID, I know. But quite possibly the best all round light I've ever come across. Why?
- Clever design.
- Separate, replaceable components.
- Polycarbonate lens. Almost indestructible and simply replaced if necessary.
- Stylish, strong housing, but light so it doesn't vibrate.
- Quality reflector. Up there with Lightforce for reflector quality. Like a mirror. Streets ahead even of Hella.
- Innovative reflector design. What they've managed to do is create what is essentially a multi-focal reflector that is capable of casting two different beams by adjusting the focal point, without compromising either. World first and must have taken enormous development. Different to Lightforce which moves the light source off the focal point.
- Strong billet aluminium base. No movement or vibration. Looks good too.
- Xenophot bulb. Automotive bulbs are yellow by comparison and Osram have created a high wattage bulb with realistic life expectancy.
- Very good CRI. The bulb is of a family designed for use in photography and places like operating theatres where strong light that doesn't distort colour is essential. Perfect for use as a driving light.
- Very even light pattern. No streaks or hot spots yet light pattern is quite wide, near to that of the Hella spread beam.
- Good range. Not talking Hella Predator at 1500m but a solid 900m which is outstanding for a halogen light.
- Ability to adjust beam to give a wider pattern that would suit tighter winding roads.
- Instant on. No waiting for the bulb to warm up as with HID, you can have light when you want it.
- Flashing the lights does not destroy bulb life like HID.
- No electronics to go wrong. Ballasts not required.
- Price. $600 retail, I got mine for $530.

i had these fitted to my brothers car and they are fricking awesome!!!!!!!!!!

i will add one other item to 5th's post.

Replacement bulbs were about $13 each. You can do it by the side of the road with no tools.

yo DO need to run 6mm wiring according to the manufacturer. My auto sparky nearly hit me when i INSISTED on this size because he felt it is oversize on a short run (he wanted to use 5mm). He did hit me when i got the bill though......

I am purchasing these lights for both my cars when i have the funds. At about $450 for the auto sparky work and i paid $500 for the lights (refer to fyrlyt thread) i refer you all to this thread viewtopic.php?f=21&t=14547
for why i want a crimping tool. Not paying that much again.

[MadMick]

Hey Guys,

I recently grabbed a set of Genesis 210 50w HIDs and then had them upgraded to 70w HID by Lightforce Custombuilt. They are by far the best light I have ever owned. Had a chance to give them a real good test between Wodonga and Tallangatta (55kms) and a very dark road and it was like driving during the day.

The one complaint I have is the reflection off road signs, but that's a common complaint with HID lights.

You can read about the lights here

[triton08]

I'm running the 130watt IPF's but I have been seeing alot of the LED light bars up here in the territory bush lately.

[mick.]

Hi guys

It's great this got sorted out and thanks to those that did.

Chris and Mick:- What do you think of the X-Ray Vision 220 90 SS HID that run a 90w internal ballast? I know the lens is glass and the body is die-cast alloy would heat over a period of time degrade the reflector causing hazing with glass and possibly body issues too? Or is this a case of them stating they are 90w but really around 70-80w?

http://xrayvision.net/

It's amazing how far we have come in driving lights since LF came out in 1997.

Just had a look at the Fyrlyt and wow Someone did tell me these gents were part of LF's designers that became unhappy with LF direction and left designing their own product, but I've no idea if that is in fact correct.
Here is a link and the video's are great http://fyrlyt.com/home/4575614600

As there pretty new out I've had nothing to do with them. I've used there older 35 watt HIDs and in all honesty I would use these over Light force or Hella any day of the week. I've had Light force in all there versions and they have never really lived up to the hype you read on the internet. The Genesis is total rubbish I had them for about 6 months and got rid of them. There output was woeful compared to other lights I'd used. The XGT I didn't think is as good as they used to be either. I've heard of a few guys complaining that there reflectors are going white after 6 months and this is with the factory bulbs. lol

Now the Britrax 90 watt HID I think they would to lucky to be 70 watts as the heat a 90 watt ballast would put out in an enclosed place like that would be incredible. That is why when the Densos are boosted to 100 watts they have a heat sink and cooling fan attached so if these where truly pumping out 90 watts they would be getting bloody hot in an enclosed space. As Chris has mentioned though ballast technology has come along way and Britrax are up there with innovative ideas and technology so it wouldn't surprise me if they where true 90 watts either.

I personally love there glass lens. Yes glass can break but so does polycarbonate as I've had 2 polycarbonate lenses on my Light Force break both Genesis and I'm yet to have a glass lens break. The GU patrol has glass lens headlights and I've never broken one of these either. I had the Britrax 35 watt versions on the roof of my old comp truck and these had survived 4 full roll overs and only required readjusting. When I got rid of my comp truck they went on my daily driver and now there on my mates 80 series. I think there about 7 years old now and still on there original bulbs and ballasts. These where given to me off Britax as a sponsorship deal when they first come out and still going strong.

Britrax gear is used in most emergency services vehicles these days including radars sirens etc so there not your average company importing cheap rubbish and adding there names to it. So I think if Britrax built these like there older version and are using there new technology I don't think to many if any other lights will come close to these straight out of the box.

I would love to see these in a shootout with a few of the other new lights out there as I think they would surprise a lot of people.

Cheers Mick

[MPGGLX-R]

Thanks Mick

I understand your mates concerns re;- reflectors in LF lights. LF replaced my LF 170's early this year for hazing on the reflectors and claimed they were getting to hot and my car (just an old Commodore station wagon) should be running at 12v, not 13.2v. My auto sparky couldn't for the life of him work that one out. Within 2 weeks the reflectors were hazed over again on the new set too

I can also see why a lot of emergency services too have swapped to Britax for their light needs too. I know NSW Police are making the swap from Hazard Industries in Tasmania to Code 3 and other Britax lights. Only got to see the GD caged vehicles and cars as too the highway cars and most are running Britax lights as flashers and lightbars. GD caged trucks in my area do run LF 170's though.

Quick question;- Which of the glass or polycarbonate has the higher resistance to heat?

[NowForThe5th]

Which of the glass or polycarbonate has the higher resistance to heat?

Glass. Polycarbonate will begin to melt at around 155 deg C. Not that that is an issue in lights since temperatures near the lens don't get anywhere near that, especially in housings like those of larger driving lights. Studies I've seen have indicated temperatures around 100 deg C within a centimetre or two of an HID bulb.

More important is resistance to UV. Polycarbonate has a relatively poor capacity to handle UV, which is why lenses are coated inside and out. The coatings do not last forever either, as is evident from the yellowing often seen on headlights of vehicles more than 5 years old.

What do you think of the X-Ray Vision 220 90 SS HID that run a 90w internal ballast? I know the lens is glass and the body is die-cast alloy would heat over a period of time degrade the reflector causing hazing with glass and possibly body issues too? Or is this a case of them stating they are 90w but really around 70-80w?

According to their web site:
Wattage is the measure of the electrical power input only

So, about 70w true output.

Like Mick, my experience is with their older lights however, my opinion is that they're slightly better than average quality based on that. The Narva 225s are probably a better light.

Here are some outputs with their 50w 220 HID, comparing against the Lightforce XGT, also at 50w.
100m - 115 lux vs 193 lux
200m - 32 lux vs 53 lux
300m - 17 lux vs 21 lux
400m - 8 lux vs 10 lux
500m - 5 lux vs 6 lux
600m - 3 lux vs 4 lux
700m - 2 lux vs 3 lux
800m - 1 lux vs 2 lux
900m - <1 lux vs 1 lux

Unlike Mick, I've had a number of glass lenses break, which is why I prefer polycarbonate. Depending on grade, polycarbonate sheet has up to 250 times the impact strength of glass.

This is what happens when kangaroos hit glass lenses:

The Genesis is total rubbish I had them for about 6 months and got rid of them. There output was woeful compared to other lights I'd used. The XGT I didn't think is as good as they used to be either.

I tend to agree although I wouldn't go quite so far as to describe them as total rubbish. I was disappointed with the Genesis I had, though, and think that they're not as good as the Hella Rallye 4000. I had no problems with lenses or reflectors but the spate of complaints, as Mick mentions, do indicate the LF may have reduced their quality?

I would love to see these in a shootout with a few of the other new lights out there

Yes! Me too.

Just had a look at the Fyrlyt and wow Someone did tell me these gents were part of LF's designers that became unhappy with LF direction and left designing their own product,

This is correct, however it was a few years ago. It is disappointing to see LF really have done little or no product development over the years. The XGT came out early and the Genesis took forever, but other than HID conversions they've done nothing. One would hope that Fyrlyt don't do the same, resting on their laurels while technology overtakes them. That would be a real shame.

[mick.]

I should also mention my experience with the Genesis was the series 1 versions Chris. There now up to about 3 or 4 and none of there newer parts fit the series 1 according to Light Force. So I was stuck with 2 broken lens which I ended up making a couple out of a better quality Polycarbonate ones which are still working on my mates Prado now. He is happy with them but I never really thought that much of them after using XGT and Hellas 4000s they where average at best.

I also agree that the Navara 225s are a better light then the older Britrax and are a pretty good light in general. I haven't seen the new Britrax but as I used to work with a lot of Police cars and still have contacts that cant speak highly enough of them but what people say and what they could be like are 2 different things. lol

Cheers Mick.

[MN GLXR]

I thought I read somewhere (here) that the genesis were designed for the European market with intentionally lower light output.

[Duck]

Narva 255 2x spread 50w HID for me & love them, quite cheap now & do a great job

[odie602r]

Narva 255 2x spread 50w HID for me & love them, quite cheap now & do a great job

+1. One real plus for me is relatively low Kelvin rating (4150K) for an HID light.

If I had my time again, it would be a toss of the coin to decide between the Narvas and the Fyrlyt, now that they're about the same price for a pair.

[MPGGLX-R]

Thanks Mick and Chris, great information!

I'm interested in a shoot out. I have a pair of LF 170's (halogen), ARB Intensity LED's, and shortly a set of Narva 225's modified by Mick which I can offer up for the test. I'd love to test these against anyone that has some LF XGT HID, Fyrlyt, Britax 220 SS HID and really any other light out there on the market that's worthy as to anyone who has modified any at home etc. too. Might be a good idea as well to test some of these LED lightbars that people are swapping to these days. I'm not sure if it's considered a "fair" test comparing different bulb types though?????

I did find the same in regards to the eventual "yellowing" of the polycarbonate lenses too. This happened to my very first set of LF 240 Blitz. I did however send these back to LF after 6yrs of use after I rang them and said I had noticed this. I was asked to return them to them and I was sent a brand new pair. I thought that was pretty good customer service. Mine did have a few indiscretions with baseball bats at some locations I was working at but luckily no damage but I do also agree that if these lights had glass lenses they would have been mince meat.