GLX-R Petrol - Central Diff Lock

[oneilln]

Guys,

I have little technical knowledge when it comes to cars so I'm hoping someone can help. In previous 4wd's I've driven or been a passenger in, they have had a central diff lock button which engages the central differential. Using the central diff lock ensures that if a single wheel, say in the front, was free spinning power would still be applied to the wheels in the rear, keeping you moving. Likewise, if a wheel in the rear was free spinning, power would be applied to the front wheels with traction. Without the centre differential being locked, if one wheel was free spinning, all power would be transferred to that wheel and you stop dead in your tracks.

My triton has the easy select gear box and what was explained to me was that when you engage 4wd be it high or low range, the central diff is automatically locked in as part of the process.There is no need to press a button as it just happens as part of the process of engaging 4wd. I'd trust the salesman if it didn't take two people before him to explain how it all worked...

Can anyone confirm this or provide some additional info on how it works?

Regards, Nick

[King Triton]

Nick

Ok I will have ago at explaining it see how i do.
by Easy select gear box i am assuming you mean super select 4WD system?
Now when a car has a centre differential (Landcruiser, Discovery, Pajero) this is a system that allows the car to have limited traction to all 4 wheels as the centre diff can be engaged but not fully locked and they will usually have at leasts 3 options
2WD which means the centre diff is open and the gearbox will only send power to the rear wheels.
AWD (fulltime 4wd) which means the center diff is engaged but not locked and this will allow power to be sent to all 4 wheels when needed but allow for some slip so the system does not bind up.
4WD is when the centre differential is locked and power is sent 50/50 to front and back wheels.

Now i don't have a triton with super select so i can not say for sure but in other cars i have drivan and been in once you turn the knob (or press the centre diff lock button all the same thing) into 4WD or 4WDlock then that is all you will have to do the centre diff will lock and you will have power sent 50/50 to frant and rear wheels. All you need to do is select HI range or LO range depending on conditions.

[Homer]

Nick

Ok I will have ago at explaining it see how i do.
by Easy select gear box i am assuming you mean super select 4WD system?
Now when a car has a centre differential (Landcruiser, Discovery, Pajero) this is a system that allows the car to have limited traction to all 4 wheels as the centre diff can be engaged but not fully locked and they will usually have at leasts 3 options
2WD which means the centre diff is open and the gearbox will only send power to the rear wheels.
AWD (fulltime 4wd) which means the center diff is engaged but not locked and this will allow power to be sent to all 4 wheels when needed but allow for some slip so the system does not bind up.
4WD is when the centre differential is locked and power is sent 50/50 to front and back wheels.

Now i don't have a triton with super select so i can not say for sure but in other cars i have drivan and been in once you turn the knob (or press the centre diff lock button all the same thing) into 4WD or 4WDlock then that is all you will have to do the centre diff will lock and you will have power sent 50/50 to frant and rear wheels. All you need to do is select HI range or LO range depending on conditions.

Yes that's what I figured - my Paj has super select (haven't done very much off road with it so can't comment from experience), but I don't believe Nick is correct when he assumes this stops one wheel spinning.

All the super select is good for IMHO is allowing you to run part time 4WD on wet or snowy bitumen. When locking the centre diff (it will just be by selecting 4wd-lock hi or low with the normal the transfer lever, no extra button or anything), all it does is turn it into a 'normal' 4wd. If you are caught out where you will be crossed up with one front wheel and one back wheel in the air, I don't believe the centre diff will play any part in getting you going - both front and rear wheel in the air will spin and you will be standing still.

I believe only diff locks on your front and rear diff allow what you were describing, and they are extra items.

This is also why for me at least - QLD- no snow - the super select is not that great an upgrade. I have maybe used Hi4wd not locked once just to see what it was like. The 5 speed auto on the other hand would be awesome.

I must add that I don't know this for sure (the locked front & rear diff bit) as I haven't been in that situation personally and my triton doesn't have it, but I assume it is correct from the Pajero

[oneilln]

Heya,

Thanks for your explanation.

The Triton's come with two types of gear box, the MY08 models in the Petrol have these options in the gear box - 2H, 4H & 4L with no centre diff button, this is the easy select gear box. The Diesel has 2H, 4H, 4HL & 4HL and is called the super select gear box, it has a centre differential.

I'm used to the Super Select gear box and so when I bought the Triton, insisted that it had the centre diff lock funtion, they promised all of this however what they promised is only available on the MY09 Petrol model that does have the super select gear box and that wasn't available until next year. I took the easy select gear box based on them telling me that when engaging 4H, teh centre diff lock is essentially engaged. Speaking to my colleague just now, he tells me that it most likely has a transfer case, which mimics a locked centre diff. This sounds like what I have.

Do you know if there are any disadvantages of this setup? Also, if I'm doing predominantly beach 4wd'ing, is there any point in getting a front locker? Cheers mate.

[slimv6]

Hi oneilln,

I have the petrol easy select, It has no 'center differential function, but I do believe there are also options with a viscouse type coupling in the super select.

The only vehicle that I've ever driven on the sand without a locker of any sort is a volkswagen van, with syncro 4x4 drive system, albeit a long time ago... Having said that, IMHO the single most important thing to be concerned with on sand is tyre pressure. We never had any issues, but staying around 0.8 bar cold. But for the seriously soft stuff, I tend to try about 0.6 cold.

You shouldn't need a locker to drive in the sand. Unless of course you land yourself in a precarious situation!!!

s

[slimv6]

oh, and I almost forgot... There's far less that can go wrong with the easy select box, less moving parts...

[Mikew]

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I have an MY09 VR diesel auto with super select, the gear options are 2H, 4H, 4Hlc, 4Llc
2H, Normal on road driving
4H, Slippery surfaces eg. ice snow, rain
4Hlc, 4wd high range, centre diff locked
4Llc, 4wd low range, centre doff locked
I can only activate the diff lock in 4Llc

[oneilln]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your responses, very helpful and I appreciate your help.

My understanding is this.

Comparing to a super select.... (Easy Select vs Super Select)
2H = 2H
n\a = 4H
4H = 4HLc
4L = 4Llc

The difference is that a super select has a centre differential enabling you to go from a non locked centre diff (4H, can drive on bituman) to a locked centre diff (can't drive on bituman). The locked centre diff in the Super Select is comparable to the locked 4H and 4L in the easy select as it uses a transfer case which gives a 50/50 power ratio to the front and rear wheels, same as a locked centre diff. Therefore, my understanding is the following...

1 Front Wheel free spinning = no dramas, rear's will get you out.
1 Front Wheel free spinning and 1 Rear wheel free spinning = your stuffed.

Does this make sense?

[Homer]

Yep you got it.

The super select is only good for using 4wd on the bitumen without winding up your transfer case/diff.

When locked it is pretty much exactly the same as being in 4wd in your easy select - hence my comment that super select IMHO isn't a huge upgrade contrary to popular opinion - unless you are a regular snow bunny - Europe, States etc.

When your back wheel is in the air, pull your handbrake on while driving and it should make (trick) the wheel on the ground drive you out. Same can be done using the normal foot brake with the front wheels - but I found that harder to work or get right.

Never had or needed a diff lock for sand - but certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at em. Driving speed when locked has to be very slow, so they would only be used in real bog/difficult situations - pretty much when you need one come to think of it.

[FreestyleCab]

hence my comment that super select IMHO isn't a huge upgrade contrary to popular opinion - unless you are a regular snow bunny - Europe, States etc.

Sorry Homer I think you are totally wrong with that statement. If my Triton had super select, as soon as it started to rain it would be in 4H while driving on the bitumen. 4wd utes are the easiest thing in the world to get accidentally traveling backwards on wet roads and having the option of constant 4wd is a huge advantage.
Towing my 2 tonne trailer in the wet would be soooo much easier and safer if my Triton was constant 4wd.....If I had money to burn I would be trading my Triton in for a super select model in a heartbeat!

[Homer]

hence my comment that super select IMHO isn't a huge upgrade contrary to popular opinion - unless you are a regular snow bunny - Europe, States etc.

Sorry Homer I think you are totally wrong with that statement. If my Triton had super select, as soon as it started to rain it would be in 4H while driving on the bitumen. 4wd utes are the easiest thing in the world to get accidentally traveling backwards on wet roads and having the option of constant 4wd is a huge advantage.
Towing my 2 tonne trailer in the wet would be soooo much easier and safer if my Triton was constant 4wd.....If I had money to burn I would be trading my Triton in for a super select model in a heartbeat!

Yeah mate, I guess it's horses for courses and wet weather towing is one thing I was thinking would be an advantage when i posted.

The reason I said it was because I have super select on the Paj and just never use it - well I do occasionally, but that is just because it is the first stop on the transfer case lever so I will slip it in there when going onto a beach or up not so hard 4wd tracks - but without it, I would just go into 4WD- same,same.

I never use it in the wet as it generally isn't necessary - no trailer or anything - and I have tried to make sure the missus knows about it (her car) so she can use it too, but she drives like a woman (funny that) and doesn't use it either.

Sometimes not having something makes it seem a more important feature than it is when you actually have it.

Coming from someone who's got both in the Paj, if there was an option of a 5 speed auto or super select (but you couldn't have both), the super select wouldn't even cross my mind, even if the 5 speed cost more and super select was free. From experience, I'd pay extra for the 5 speed rather than free super select, but that is just my situation maybe.

Plus with the new 17" stock tyres, you just about can't get the thing to spin up in the wet, let alone lose control.

Just my opinion and of course I don't do a lot of towing, and having really good wet weather tyres, it makes my criteria totally different than many other users.

[slimv6]

all this talk about windup. do you guys actually think that driving on wet surfaces will cause any damage? I reckon there's no detrimental windup on the xfer case when you are doing normal road driving. especally in the wet... There's a certain amount of scrub fron the rubber and water to overcome that. having said that,,,, full lock turns and ll are obviously going to cause the dreaded wind...

And, where is super selct actually going to make a difference if there's no form of LS in the center?? If there's no LS in the center, to my mind you will lose all driveability if one wheel loses traction. (obviously if you don't have traction control and LS) Power will follow the route of least resistance. SO what good is that?? Our SA super selects have a locker as std on the rear.
any paj drivers know if theres LS in the transfer case?

I know Vdubs and porsches and audi's and all that good stuff have LS in the center diff to cater for tar and such, and again to provide tracion when any wheel is spinning at the front or the rear??

Fortunately, my 3.5's got easy select and the locker...

[Homer]

Hi Slim, I am certainly no expert but my understanding is the centre diff on my Paj is an open 'slippery diff' which does slip and allows power to go back to the rear wheels (limo slip diff there) in situations when the fronts would try and wind up the case . That is the design to avoid windup I think.
When it is 'locked' it is locked into 50/50 front and rear wheel drive no matter what (like a locker I suppose/guess) but it is the centre diff - or should be thought of maybe as the transfer case that is locked, not front or rear diffs. It is then up to each individual diff - open (slippery) or limo, or locked to do its job as far as individual wheel spin goes.

As I said I am no expert, it is just what I thought was supposed to happen?

In respect to your thoughts on losing driveability once the wheel loses traction, I agree, although there will still be some drive to the front wheels/wheel allowing the car to turn better (drive through) in the corner. From experience you can deffinitely notice the difference in 4H in the wet, but with normal driving style it doesn't make me use it - but I sort of like a bit of seat of the pants as well.
So for towing or faster driving (Ronny racer) or just bad drivers (plenty of those) in the wet it is a noticeable difference and a benefit. I haven't had traction control, but would assume the benefits are similar for comparison purposes.
I would use it if I was in a hurry in the wet for sure on the road - but never on the track

[slimv6]

Yeah homer!!!! Yeehaaa!

BUT!!! a nice controlled 4WD drift I personally find a but "up" on the conventional bumslide...

the joys of living in the dirt...

s.

[NowForThe5th]

Having had a couple of Pajero's and 2 Tritons I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth...

IMHO the Super Select offers the huge advantage of All Wheel Drive in any conditions and this is a big benefit in wet weather or when towing. Even in the dry there is the security of AWD (at the cost of higher fuel consumption and a bit more tyre wear). The 4H setting is also excellent for fast, dry dirt or gravel in combination with the LSD rear whether pushing hard or just wanting the security of AWD.

Being able to lock or unlock the centre diff gives a choice that allows tailoring the vehicle's capacities to the conditions and according to my research it would be possible (on the later versions of Super Select with electronic control) to actually override the locking in low range so that you could have 10 forward gears without the centre diff locked - excellent for towing up steep inclines (ever tried a standing start on a really steep incline with a heavy trailer in high range?) without the risk of transmission windup. Of course this is not quite the same issue in an auto because the torque convertor provides some slip but mine have all been manuals.

About the best system I've ever used is that in the Land Rovers where centre diff locking is separate to High or Low Range selection - pity the rest of the car was constantly falling apart. I used to tow a big, heavy trailer (4000kg) and being able to just slog up, or down, Brown Mountain or the Clyde in low range was a real boon, saving brakes on the way down and wear on the way up.

I find the Tritons typical of the ilk in being a bit light in the rear, and therefore very easy to lose traction (intentionall or not). If I'd known that Super Select was coming I would have waited a bit longer. That said, at least they are recoverable and reasonably controllable although I must admit that I prefer the faster steering of the MK in such a situation. Like SlimV6, still a boy racer at heart!

[Jitsukablue]

Slim, before I was any wiser, I drove in 4H (easy select) when wet, and by the time I got to work, there was some extra noises there shouldn't have been. At freeway speed, there seems to be enough to windup even in the wet...

[Homer]

Having had a couple of Pajero's and 2 Tritons I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth...

IMHO the Super Select offers the huge advantage of All Wheel Drive in any conditions and this is a big benefit in wet weather or when towing. Even in the dry there is the security of AWD (at the cost of higher fuel consumption and a bit more tyre wear). The 4H setting is also excellent for fast, dry dirt or gravel in combination with the LSD rear whether pushing hard or just wanting the security of AWD.

Being able to lock or unlock the centre diff gives a choice that allows tailoring the vehicle's capacities to the conditions and according to my research it would be possible (on the later versions of Super Select with electronic control) to actually override the locking in low range so that you could have 10 forward gears without the centre diff locked - excellent for towing up steep inclines (ever tried a standing start on a really steep incline with a heavy trailer in high range?) without the risk of transmission windup. Of course this is not quite the same issue in an auto because the torque convertor provides some slip but mine have all been manuals.

About the best system I've ever used is that in the Land Rovers where centre diff locking is separate to High or Low Range selection - pity the rest of the car was constantly falling apart. I used to tow a big, heavy trailer (4000kg) and being able to just slog up, or down, Brown Mountain or the Clyde in low range was a real boon, saving brakes on the way down and wear on the way up.

I find the Tritons typical of the ilk in being a bit light in the rear, and therefore very easy to lose traction (intentionall or not). If I'd known that Super Select was coming I would have waited a bit longer. That said, at least they are recoverable and reasonably controllable although I must admit that I prefer the faster steering of the MK in such a situation. Like SlimV6, still a boy racer at heart!

Yes, the more instances people are giving when they use it, the more I am thinking it is a pretty good option. I rarely tow so wet driving and towing wasn't a thought for me - I'm a boy racer as well and you need to do a bit of drifting every now and then I reckon to keep the excitement levels up - but dirt corrugations are where it is most effective for me eg. Brown lake track on Straddy - Freshwater at Rainbow. Even at low speeds corrugations drift you all over the road with little control, so Hi4 works well there.

I would still take the 5 spd auto as my '03 Pajero (with 3.5 petrol) which is maybe 6-700kg heavier just eats my ML like it's a 4 cylinder.

I 100% agree NFT5th the MK steering was soooooo much better with maybe a turn less (or even more than that) lock to lock. It also didn't "catch" when power sliding like the ML does.
Have you tried to do a bit of wet hooning?? I did only once and the steering ripped out of my hands on fast corrections when giving it the berries, from the power steering issue discussed here (the wheel just locks up in your hands).
That is why I sent the report to the transport authority. I think fixing it "under 1800 revs" as they apparently do - is not a total fix. It still happens from about 2500RPM and up which nearly puts you in a ditch if having a bit of a power slide.

I am a bit confused about the 10 forward gears. Is it possible to jump from hi to low range easily (like a truck - sort of) while moving to give you 10 gears or are you meaning you would drive in low range around the roads if the centre diff wasn't locked?

[NowForThe5th]

I haven't experienced the steering lockup but fast turns are "interesting"! Having rubber band arms would help!

As for the 10 gears, it depends. On the Discovery it was possible to shift from high to low and back at up to about 20km/h, as it was on the NH Pajero. The electronics on later Mitsu's are too smart and stop this. Still, a manual switch override and wiring to fool the computer should be possible. Because of the overlap (low to high) I could only use the bottom 3 in low and then go to high but even that made a big difference when towing uphill.