Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

[NTBB]

Am I right in thinking that If you do some 4wding on your own that the winch is a good option for self recovery and the diff locks can get you deeper in the poo and make for a very long walk home

[fridgie]

^^^^ I would concur with that statement

[ag9111]

^^^ The time you do get stuck, you are stuck big time

[snowman]

Am I right in thinking that If you do some 4wding on your own that the winch is a good option for self recovery and the diff locks can get you deeper in the poo and make for a very long walk home

definately. if you see the 'weekend fun' video of Tristan in the porridge type mud , lockers would not get you out of that but a winch would and did.

if you are using front and rear lockers to get up a really steep rock step slope etc maybe you should not be there by your self anyway.....tough call.

i want to do more 4wding by myself (which breaks the golden rule) and hence why i will go a winch. But a winch AND front and rear lockers ...well now you are talking.

changing a CV on a track, especially by yourself, would be a real shit of a day.

The old 'manual' locking hubs you could often (if not needing 4wd) unlock the hub and take out of 4wd and that stopped the CV turning so you could get home. but not with these modern auto locking hub jobs. it is one time i will agree with "Roothy" that old is better. (except when you have to get out in the mud to lock the manual ones in because you forgot to at the get go... )

[Homer]

Had a run with the new ARB front air locker on the weekend. Here is a quick generalization from only a short period of use.

Improvement to the cars ability is considerable - I would guess a similar amount as turning on the rear locker for those with that option.

In a quick test over a big rock it was similar to the rear locked cars. I think I got a little further...but there is always the effort factor to consider too.
I was a bit concerned with all the broken CV talk so wasn't as aggressive as I could or would normally have been and after seeing the pics, if I would have hit it a little harder and used the handbrake there is every chance I may have climbed that one....but it was dragging the car across on it's sliders...love those AVA rocksliders!

I wonder if Jop can give me a call on effort and what he thinks if he hit it harder?

Took on a hill that was pretty tough, but it was at least a 50/50 traction thing I think although I would never have climbed it without the locker.
No one else could get up - or was willing to bash their way up so still not sure about the comparison....did any of the guys that didn't make it have a rear locker?
I did notice that all those that tried and didn't make it ended up in potentially roll over situations where at the same spot while trying different lines I never even came close...could also be track wear factor too as I was first.
One thing you get with a front locker is the ability to keep the thing in line on a perilous rearward sliding descent.
Unlike what a lot of people say, I believe it is the rear locker that pushes you off course. The fronts give you steerability (is that a word) in most situations just like when people use Super select in the rain for the same reason.
So when sliding backwards it isn't a bad thing to have both front wheels able to turn and steer you...at least a little.

I found ZERO difference to steering when having a go at anything..BUT...if you are stopped (stuck) with your fronts in contact with solid ground (on that big dry rock) and the wheel is turned at between half and full lock...you can not straighten the wheel with the locker engaged. It isn't tight...it's locked. No problem to disengage the locker, turn and go on, but just something that surprised me. In a less extreme position it may not even surface as it never happened again.
This will take some experience to work out how and why it all works and what it does, but isn't in any way concerning me...at the moment at least.

Having the car on the sliders and centre cross member and the fronts only in contact, the spinning wheels did follow a crevice and try and spin the car 90 degrees...but again it was pivoting on a fulcrum and fronts were in a crevice so should be expected. Normally they would just spin one and fight each other.
In saying that, you know it's happening straight away and just stop....I did notice though that you are hard on the bouncing ABS for maybe a second or 2 when stopping the spinning locked wheels in this or any stalled situation...interesting as I've never experienced that before - never had ABS before either. Probably still too much right foot..

Don't think that would be an issue when crawling though which is where it will be outstanding compared to an open diff...picks up the front or back wheel in a 'salute' no problems

Purposely dropped the rears into a gully and onto the rear bar so it was stuck...engaged the locker and drove out like it was a car park

Anyway looking forward to a proper test as I think they will be a good thing in comparison.

Having both front and rear locker would make the car a mountain goat....but as people have said you would eventually (probably very quickly) find yourself where you shouldn't be and definitely wish you had a winch.

[ag9111]

Well done Homer.Great evaluation. Now you have to use it more to justify it. Front locker and a pretty good LSD. Not a bad combination

[bill65]

Well done Homer.Great evaluation. Now you have to use it more to justify it. Front locker and a pretty good LSD. Not a bad combination

this is what i have arb front and rear LSD was money well spent

[jop]

To be honest - i got further last time - no way i was backing off it

That rock is more clearance than anything - so it is more of a tyre size not so much a traction/locker thing.

We are never going to prove which is better - one will win one hill, the other will win the next.

He who has locker has more fun......... he who has both lockers........ wins

[Homer]

Yes I had the same thoughts. Depends where the traction is I guess.

[Homer]

Just thought I'd bump this up now I've seen how relatively simple it is to replace the CV joints...and that they look like strong units...and I now have spares.....and given that virtually no one on the site has posted about broken CV's in 5 years......go the front locker FTW

Don't know if I'd add a front locker if I already had the rear as it will be totally boring sitting at the top of hills waiting for your friends if they are in anything but dual locked cars...and you would need a winch for sure as if you get stopped when you have dual lockers, there's no one going to be in front for a recovery as it will be a mountain goat IMO.
You would also be looking 4" lift and 35's to get the best out of dual lockers and then the stresses would be right up there IMHO and also wty totally goooone on the drivetrain.

If I had my time again I'd have the factory rear locker for sure for the warranty and cost (but I'd miss the LSD for all the road driving we do) but if you didn't get the rear locker and you are going to add a locker...put it in the front...I will be very surprised if in the majority of cases it doesn't compare very well to the rear

Especially now that the CV thing isn't such a worry I can give it more than 1500rpm

[ag9111]

Thats the point of a locker Homer. You can get to places at 1500 rpm were a LSD ute has to run 2500-3000rpm. More controlled.
Fitting a locker is not about its mountain goat ability, leave that to the 4" lifted GU with 35's, but about achieving the same goal in a more controlled less stressful manor. The triton will never be a monster rock crawler
I think you have the best setup, Front locker and rear LSD, that you can get on an ML. I wouldn't do anything different to the way i have gone though, with the rear factory locker and the TC, on the MN.

[Homer]

Yeah cheers AG that's how I've been using it and I agree. Especially for rock crawling it's exceptional

But things like that big muddy slippery hill I did at City view and some crumbly shale type hills we get here I was a little worried to get up the momentum that might be required in case I bounced...a little like a certain vid of someone at Wheeny Ck I saw recently

Now, while not going silly, I'm not so concerned at babying it for want of a better description. I must say though - the slower you can putt up the hill the better the feeling

[har05l]

I wouldn't do anything different to the way i have gone though, with the rear factory locker and the TC, on the MN.

x 2

[61rth]

after watching homer with the front locker and a few other guys with th erear locker up at LCMP, I can say that the front locker in those particular situations was by far the best. It was an easily controlled ascent and descent and at a sedate pace that would have been very kind to the vehicle, wIth minimal risk of damage.

The rear locked utes seamed to need a little more berries, but mine with no lockers needed a whole lot of right foot and consequently the ride was not very pretty or comfortable.

If I go a locker at some stage, it will be in the front without any shadow of a doubt.

[bill65]

i have just had done left CV under warranty with arb air locker

[ag9111]

i have just had done left CV under warranty with arb air locker

Why

[bill65]

hole in the boot and sand from SA / VIC Border track trip!!

[Joe]

after watching homer with the front locker and a few other guys with th erear locker up at LCMP, I can say that the front locker in those particular situations was by far the best. It was an easily controlled ascent and descent and at a sedate pace that would have been very kind to the vehicle, wIth minimal risk of damage.

The rear locked utes seamed to need a little more berries, but mine with no lockers needed a whole lot of right foot and consequently the ride was not very pretty or comfortable.

If I go a locker at some stage, it will be in the front without any shadow of a doubt.

It was the tyres that made all the difference

[Homer]

^^B@stard

Bill65 how did you get wty on a boot rip/hole? Also you didn't actually have the CV fail?

One thing I didn't mention was that if the CV fails you can still drive it out in 2wd, which was a big "phew" for me.

[ag9111]

One thing I didn't mention was that if the CV fails you can still drive it out in 2wd, which was a big "phew" for me.

I thought everybody knew that

[Homer]

Yes well I thought so too but then there were posts suggesting otherwise mentioning the auto locking hubs.
I did pose the question when that was mentioned and nobody answered

Only time I've known of broken CV's was in 60 series Cruisers with manual locking hubs and there was no problem....wasn't sure with auto hubs.

Another thing new to me was the sealed wheel bearing setup on the Triton. That's why the need for the 32mm socket for the big nut as it is hammered up tight and not backed off and split pinned like you would set up thrust clearance on your normal wheel bearing.

Good thing is the bearing is sealed...bad is you have to pull the whole hub and everything off if you have a wheel bearing failure...can't remember but it could also be a complete hub replacement...someone listening on Saturday could correct me on that

Having a lot to do with this and larger size bearings on a daily basis doesn't fill me with euphoria when I see this....as more often than not we "unseal" the sealed bearings and repack them with a grease nipple as we've found serviceability gives a longer running life...

[snowman]

One thing I didn't mention was that if the CV fails you can still drive it out in 2wd, which was a big "phew" for me.

I thought everybody knew that

well not everybody and i am sure i am not the only one. i thought from previous posting that the hub did not lock but it was somewhere near the diff housing? meaning the CV continued to rotate in 2wd.

so lets be specific about this. i assume if you break one you have to remove from 4wd. then turn the car off and then restart to ensure the front hubs are unlocked?

is the hub locking outside of the CV nearer the wheel?

[Joe]

From what I can tell, the hubs are not what you would called "locked", but rather permenantly engaged with no way of disengaging them so they are not "locking" near the outside or the inside of the CV, they are just fixed if that makes sense.

I too was under the impression that the front drive shafts spin all the time regardless of whether we are in 4WD or not so I am still a little confused about driving out on a broken CV. I should have asked more questions

[NowForThe5th]

There is some explanation of the front engagement system here:

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4906&p=74197&hilit=hub+lock#p74197

[daryn]

You can drive with a broken cv shaft, just drive slowly. As told to me by Mitsubishi.