Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Engines, Gearboxes, Transfers, Tailshafts, Diffs, axles and CVs

Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Homer on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:53 am

Merged :mrgreen:
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby snowman on Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:58 am

Homer wrote:Merged :mrgreen:


.....and you didn't break the Internets. :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :D :D
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Homer on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:09 am

:lol: :oops: that was why the :mrgreen: was there...really needed a Click to view larger picture
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby fridgie on Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:15 am

Mattstruck wrote:What brand will/do you use Fridgie?

I have Burson CVs as back up but never used them :D

My spares were/are genuine mate :P
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby ag9111 on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:19 am

OEM compressor is low pressure.
Aftermarket lockers require higher pressures.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Shwa on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:28 am

Thanks heaps Snowman. I'll be looking into the elocker thing directly.
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Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Shwa on Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:40 pm

Hey Homer, did you lose the TC when you had the front locker installed? Or does it turn off automatically when the FL is engaged?
Or for that matter (& for anyone out there who has an Auto Loka) do you lose the TC with the install? Also how well does the auto Loka perform in sand or mud over the air Loka?
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Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Cowboy Dave on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:01 pm

Homer never had TC on his ute. But no you don't lose it except to say that if the locker is on then in theory there should be no speed difference between the wheels to trigger TC to operate.
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Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Shwa on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:47 pm

Well that makes sense, even for someone with limited knowledge on the subject. Thanks Dave.
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Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Shwa on Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:52 am

Is anyone using an auto loka in their rear diff?
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby NowForThe5th on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:43 am

No, they're not available.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Naff on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:27 am

Just an update on my locker issue from above...

ARB Nundah are getting a new locker center sent up from Melbourne as they too failed to install the passenger CV with the factory spring clip. Big thumbs up to these guys, keeping me informed throughout the time the ute has been there.

And big thanks to Leethal and Fridgie for helping me out with a factory spring clip yesterday.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Homer on Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:51 am

Resurrecting an old punching bag topic from a while back :twisted: :lol:

Hopefully there will be a little restraint shown for a change :lol: :roll: who am I kidding, the culprits have already started changing facial colour and cracking the knuckles in preparation for a key board onslaught :D

This is a serious question so hopefully we can get down to some answers and a bit of knowlege without the arguments as I've asked this a number of times and never received an answer.

If I had an MN with TC and no factory diff lock, and I wanted to put an aftermarket locker in it (let's say the front for arguments sake :roll: ) would the locker cause any issues with TC given that the factory rear diff lock button automatically turns TC off for some reason?

I don't see too many people locking MN's and then mainly already factory rear locked cars fitting FL so this potential issue, if there is one, is negated?

I know in the ML the wiring loom for the factory diff lock is still in the car, so if the MN is the same you could potentially connect into that to cut off the TC, but my feeling always has been that FL and rear TC would be a very good combo and turning TC off to the rear diff would be a step backwards if it wasn't necessary?

It all depends on the reason mitsubishi turn off the TC when the locker is engaged :?
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Cowboy Dave on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:11 am

Homer wrote:blah blah blah front locker blah blah blah I'm thinking about upgrading from my petrol engined ML POS to a superior MN and am thinking about the FDL issue.... blah blah blah


Some creative licence taken above for entertainment value.

When I put my lockers in I asked about the whole TC issue. ARB just said to me that the TC wouldn't have anything to do, as when it was locked there would be no speed difference between the wheels for the TC to detect and be triggered by. Of course with the ARB lockers you can choose to leave them off and rely on the TC until you feel you need the extra assistance so you can have your cake and eat it too.

The Mitsubishi decision to de-activate TC with the RDL is intriguing. I wonder whether they take the view that with the push you'll get from a RDL you might expect some slippage between the front wheels and rather than have them braked or whatever you want them rolling freely to give the RDL the maximum chance of pushing you over whatever obstacle you're tackling?
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Postby TUF909 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:46 am

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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Homer on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:10 am

There are no LSD's on at least later MN's so that probably doesn't change much for them ;) and even if they did you wouldn't stick an aftermarket locker in the back anyway :P (OK that's my last crack about that stuff but we are talking chasing more extreme 4wd capability rather than the merits of factory options).

I'm wondering if the TC switch is because the ABS is also switched off? (well I think it is...it is in ML's) although I don't see why that would do anything either?

CD, I'd think the fronts will be scrambling quite badly with an open diff (doing relatively little) and the rears don't really offer that much push so you would probably want the fronts scrambling and biting as that's where all the traction is (or traction is lost for want of a better term) on IFS cars?

I'm still unsure how the TC works. I always thought side to side, but others have said front to back and others diagonal :?
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Cowboy Dave on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:20 am

Yeah I thought diagonal played a role as well, but stopping to think about it, I reckon that might be the ASC rather than the TC. Diagonals going off unevenly might be an indicator of excessive yaw which I imagine ASC would want to stop. It would make more sense for TC to be acting on the opposite wheel to whatever is spinning which would suggest side to side.

I wish you'd leave comments about RDLs to people that actually have them. We all know your views on the superiority of the FDL but it's the throwaway put downs on the RDL that give rise to all the arguments... Well that and people who have NFI chiming in, which probably includes me :oops: :oops:

What would be really cool, would be for some MMAL engineer to come out on a trip with us one day and talk us through how it all works and then put the different trucks through their paces to demo everything.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Homer on Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:05 am

OK, for the sake of argument - or stopping another childish one, can anyone answer the TC question/potential problem based on aftermarket rear locker only.

I don't really understand the factory switch turning ABS off with the RL either?
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Sootie on Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:44 am

Homer wrote:OK, for the sake of argument - or stopping another childish one, can anyone answer the TC question/potential problem based on aftermarket rear locker only.

I don't really understand the factory switch turning ABS off with the RL either?


Does the factory locker actually turn off TC or only stability control?

If it only turns off stability control it might make sense because of how all of the sensors work and them getting confused with the back wheels locked but why it (possibly) turns TC off is more puzzling
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby biggibbo on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:15 pm

Turns off ASC, and T/C
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Calblitzen on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:43 pm

I could be wrong, but reading through Mitsubishi blurb it talks about ASC and TC using diagonal braking. This maybe why the Mitsubishi DL turns of the TC because it would also be braking the DL as well when you are spinning a front wheel. I believe the diagonal braking is designed due to the possible teetering on three wheels between front and back. May not be the best explanation.
Have always wondered about this and am glad someone has asked. As Homer said, should be able to work out how to hook into the harness and turn the TC off.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Calblitzen on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:46 pm

I'm sure I remember reading that the ML has front to back braking where as the MN has the diagonal braking. Maybe Lee can confirm this.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby Calblitzen on Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:30 pm

Bumping this as I'm interested in people's thoughts.
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby George Kyro on Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:17 pm

Glad someone else has asked this question as it was also playing on my mind...
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Re: Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

Postby ag9111 on Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:40 am

When you engage the Factory RDL the TC and ASC are both disengaged.

TC works side to side to stop the spinning wheel through the open diff

ASC works first on diagonal wheel to try and control any yaw issues, then on other wheels as required due to slip.

An aftermarket front diff lock will not affect the TC working on the rear in any way shape or form as the ECU does not know it exists. It just doesn't see any slip across the front.

I have my OEM RDL set up so I can engage it any time, with switches, and the TC still works on the front end :D

Unfortunately my muddies have gone hard, as they are about 7 years old, so have not really had a good opportunity to test it out properly. It certainly gets me further than just with the RDL though
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