Closing the EGR Valve *check first post for links*

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:59 am

Srb,
The one way valve in T'd into the MAP line seems to have stopped any problems with codes, so to my mind, this mod is all about performance and/or economy improvement. I might try and get a throttle valve from a wreckers so I can pull it apart to see how it could be altered.
What would be interesting would be a comparison of these 2 mods with the one way valve if you ever get the time and enthusiasm to give it a go?

Here's a good article on 2T.
I've been using it in mine for about 40,000km. It doesn't use a drop of oil and is very smooth.

http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php ... in-diesel/
Last edited by sierra on Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:10 am

coxy47 wrote:This is the path that i was trying to go down with rectifiying the problem but i dont believe there is a good solution. The best method is to cut the power line for the Throttle Position Sensor as this will disable the thottle and once re-enabled will allow the engine to shutdown smoothly. It does generate an engine code, cant remeber what though :oops: .Some times this only appears as a pending code but it does become a CEL if you dont clear it. The best thing about this code though is that once it has been generated in that particular time the engine is one, it wont re-enable the throttle for egr purposes even if the sensor is re-enabled. So this means you can cycle the switch relatively quickly, read a minute between off and on, and the throttle will be fully open all the time and still shutdown correctly :D . But the down side is the CEL's it generates.

Other wires can be cut to disable the throttle but if you disable the actuator it generates a different code which prevents the car from shutting down properly until its cleared. It took me a while to figure out that was the case :oops: .

While you could automate this process of disabling and re-enabling the switch its not possible without the engine code.


Very interesting! 8-)
I noticed the TPS signal stayed at 99% open when I shut down and had assumed the thing shut or went to 0% to achieve the clean shut down. I hadn't mentioned it in case someone said it was the scabby Scanguage not doing it's job properly. :lol:
So it must be the fuel is shut off at the injectors instead of at the pump? Something like that and the throttle body must be involved in some way? I thought of starting it, pulling the hose off the throttle body and getting someone to turn it off while I watch in case the butterfly does a quick flip to closed and back which is too quick to register or on a different circuit?

Someone here, RHK Triton?, pulled the plug on the throttle body for weeks without bothering to clear the CEL and had no problems with it getting worse than that.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby coxy47 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:39 am

sierra wrote:Very interesting! 8-)
I noticed the TPS signal stayed at 99% open when I shut down and had assumed the thing shut or went to 0% to achieve the clean shut down. I hadn't mentioned it in case someone said it was the scabby Scanguage not doing it's job properly. :lol:
So it must be the fuel is shut off at the injectors instead of at the pump? Something like that and the throttle body must be involved in some way? I thought of starting it, pulling the hose off the throttle body and getting someone to turn it off while I watch in case the butterfly does a quick flip to closed and back which is too quick to register or on a different circuit?

Someone here, RHK Triton?, pulled the plug on the throttle body for weeks without bothering to clear the CEL and had no problems with it getting worse than that.


The Throttle flap definitly does go to 0% or there abouts when the engine shuts down so it is the scabby Scangauge not doing its job properly. :lol: :lol: Though mine used to read that so im not sure what yours is doing. Do you have the update frequency set to Fast??

i wasnt clear but the code that is generated from disabling the sensor, after you have re-enabled it and as long as you havent cleared it, prevents it from shutting under egr operation but not on shutdown. The throttle does close on shutdown. As for the code it doesnt cause any problems as long as you dont mind having a CEL. I use the switch every day going to and from work and only clear it about once a week.

Ive decided to give 2t oil another run so ill see how it goes this time. I have missed the smoothness and quietness of the enigne with it :D
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:06 pm

coxy47 wrote:The Throttle flap definitly does go to 0% or there abouts when the engine shuts down so it is the scabby Scangauge not doing its job properly. :lol: :lol: Though mine used to read that so im not sure what yours is doing. Do you have the update frequency set to Fast??

i wasnt clear but the code that is generated from disabling the sensor, after you have re-enabled it and as long as you havent cleared it, prevents it from shutting under egr operation but not on shutdown. The throttle does close on shutdown. As for the code it doesnt cause any problems as long as you dont mind having a CEL. I use the switch every day going to and from work and only clear it about once a week.

Ive decided to give 2t oil another run so ill see how it goes this time. I have missed the smoothness and quietness of the enigne with it :D


How do I set the update frequency to fast, there is a slight delay?

How do you rate the performance with the throttle left open? Is there a gain to the economy?
I would assume it would be a bit livelier in the initial 25% of the AP movement and a bit stronger therefore, cruising up to 25% AP but I can watch the moment the throttle body goes from 20% to 99% and nothing much happens. I'll carefully check that next time out cruising in the 100-110kph range where it must be at the point of changing. I always use the cruise which would mask it so will leave it off, obviously.

So what you are saying is that if I unplug the throttle body, start it up and then plug it back in, as long as I leave the CEL on it will stay wide open and still shut down sweetly?

I filled up once without 2T and worried myself sick about the engine until I could get some more in there. :oops:
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby coxy47 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:24 pm

Much more balanced overall and economy cruising at highway speeds its notable improved over just the egr blank. I was having the same problems as Odie so that was to be expected. Maybe slightly more responsive down low but it could just be a psycological side effect.

And no not necessarily. I cant remeber what the code is that it generates from pulling the throttle body. There are two codes that can occur. One is related to the throttle actuator being disabled and the second is due to the sensor being disabled. Its the sensor one that you want. P0299 from memory i think. Also it will be sweet to shut down that time as long as you dont clear the code but if you restart the engine you need to re-trigger the code again.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby RHKTriton on Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:40 pm

I just kill the power to the flap, esp when driving in the city - absolute pig at lights in standard mode.

One thing I have been watching over the last few weeks: if I let the engine reach reach normal temp, I won't get a light with the flap disabled. If I try earlier it sometimes gives a light but not always.

What I am getting lately is a limpy with no light if I leave the flap engaged and use the aircon - error in in throttle position sensor - so its got an intermittant break in part of its sweep.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Newguy on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:05 am

So after Getting a Chip in the weekend for my Triton (See Link Below), i had been reading about the EGR valve.
Now my chip is just a Common rail plug in, and the "ON" position is set to 1500rpm where is starts to push for fuel in. I Had a good increase in power when you give t to her you can here all the diff drive train putting that torque down to the road.

So from what i saw on here was if i close the EGR Line before the oil cooler my truck won't breath in the Dirty oil/carbon crap and choke up the manifolds.
So last night i Pulled the Pipe off, took the Gasket out, made a 2mm SS Shim and blanked her off, took me half an hour or so, Bolted her all back up and went for a drive.
Instantly noticed the Boost pressure coming on strong at 1500RPm instead of say 1750-1800RPM
Which has helped burn the slight smoking at those revs that the chip gave it not black just a misting.


ECU Link - i don't sell these just showing the one i am using.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =460806442

So what i am yet to figure out is what my Trip computer is telling me is Wrong or not.
Before when i drove to work, 30KM drive at around 80KMPH i would get an average of say 6.9L /100KM
Now i get 4.9L/100KM.

Where is the car measuring the Fuel Usage from, as i am sure my Piggy back system is just increasing the Diesel Flow.

I Think the EGR Mod is a good one if it has no negative side effects. :lol:
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Tony on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:49 am

Your chip works by telling the ECU that the fuel pressure target at the rail pressure sensor has not been met at a given value. That's how you get the extra fuel. Your Trip computer uses the rail sensor value to estimate the fuel usage. Since your chip tells the ECU the voltage is lower than what it actually is, the trip computer reports lower numbers.

Best way is to check the usage is when you fill up at the pump.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Newguy on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:16 am

Tony - Cheers I will see how i go on a Fresh Tank and report back.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby odie602r on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:36 am

odie602r wrote:Yeah only difference between 11L/100 and this one was the one way valve in MAP line. Will leave it in for return leg tomorrow and check it out again. Watch this space.

Thanks too for those photos srb above, re long rangers other mod. How did you make up that tee pipe between the EGR cooler and valve? Would you consider making more?



Okay, just refueled after the return leg with EGR blank and One way valve in MAP line - 480.7kms, 46.61L = 9.69L/100kms. So, consistency now over a return trip of over 1L/100kms improvement for me with the One Way valve in.

These figures are now closer to the best I've got back so far, so I think it makes sense to keep the EGR blank in now, since the fuel economy hit has been negated.

For a few $$, it certainly appears as though this simple mod (the one way valve) is worth doing for those of us who have taken a hit (increase) with fuel economy - I wonder whether those who didn't have their consumption increase would see even further benefit by installing the one way valve?

But if you do - I don't want to know! :(
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:21 am

RHKTriton wrote:I just kill the power to the flap, esp when driving in the city - absolute pig at lights in standard mode.

One thing I have been watching over the last few weeks: if I let the engine reach reach normal temp, I won't get a light with the flap disabled. If I try earlier it sometimes gives a light but not always.

What I am getting lately is a limpy with no light if I leave the flap engaged and use the aircon - error in in throttle position sensor - so its got an intermittant break in part of its sweep.


It seems that 55c coolant temp is the spot where everything, including the throttle body start operating normally.
I'll try unplugging mine after that to see how it works out.
Sounds bad news with the fault?
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:36 am

odie602r wrote:Okay, just refueled after the return leg with EGR blank and One way valve in MAP line - 480.7kms, 46.61L = 9.69L/100kms. So, consistency now over a return trip of over 1L/100kms improvement for me with the One Way valve in.

These figures are now closer to the best I've got back so far, so I think it makes sense to keep the EGR blank in now, since the fuel economy hit has been negated.

For a few $$, it certainly appears as though this simple mod (the one way valve) is worth doing for those of us who have taken a hit (increase) with fuel economy - I wonder whether those who didn't have their consumption increase would see even further benefit by installing the one way valve?

But if you do - I don't want to know! :(


That's very good news, especially since the purpose of the one way valve is to stop the MAP reading going negative and triggering an ECU fault after fitting the EGR blank.
I can only surmise that higher MAP pressure signal is restoring fuel that is needed cruising with low boost.

I'll fit one to mine soon and see how it alters the consumption.

Why would you even think about removing that setup? No more carbon in the manifold, no codes or limps and better fuel economy. :D

Does it drive any differently?
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby odie602r on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:27 am

Not thinking about removing the setup now after the one way valve is in, but was considering removing it prior to this when the EGR blank alone caused an increase in fuel consumption (16% more fuel being used - not happy Jan!)

So, the setup overall has not improved my economy, rather:
> the EGR blank alone made it worse (by 16%), and
> the one way valve corrected it back to baseline (ie non-EGR blank consumption figures).

So, economy-wise, I'm not better off (unlike what many others have experienced), but at least I won't be getting any carbon buildup - that's a win, for sure. :)

Driveability - it does seem to have reduced the turbo lag - it's not as noticeable now, even my wife commented.
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http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=11704
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:46 pm

odie602r wrote:Not thinking about removing the setup now after the one way valve is in, but was considering removing it prior to this when the EGR blank alone caused an increase in fuel consumption (16% more fuel being used - not happy Jan!)

So, the setup overall has not improved my economy, rather:
> the EGR blank alone made it worse (by 16%), and
> the one way valve corrected it back to baseline (ie non-EGR blank consumption figures).

So, economy-wise, I'm not better off (unlike what many others have experienced), but at least I won't be getting any carbon buildup - that's a win, for sure. :)

Driveability - it does seem to have reduced the turbo lag - it's not as noticeable now, even my wife commented.


Shame about the consumption, still, at least it's back to where it was and you would have to think a bit more fuel might improve it further?
Was the turbo lag improved with the EGR blank alone or only after you fitted the one way valve?
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby odie602r on Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:06 pm

Turbo lag improvement was noticeable from the EGR blank alone - can't recall noticing any difference to this either way with the one way valve installed

Like you I'm hoping more kms on the clock will see improved economy - as I've said before it's a long way from the reported figures (which I know are set in ideal conditions etc, but 30+% more consumption is a lot from what is stated as the economy by Mitsu).

I'm also hopeful that the Chip IT chip might help me realise a 7-10% improvement, which others have apparently experienced with this product. I guess worst case scenario I'll have more power but with the same economy!
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http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=11704
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:42 pm

I make 9.69L/100km 21% more than the 8.0L/100km stated for your model but I would be pissed off too.
My ML is rated at 8.2 and I my average since new is slightly under that, so don't read that bit. :roll:

You might get better consumption with a chip, when you don't use the extra power.
You could also consider replacing the aircleaner with a K and N or Uni Filter?
The rear muffler is also reported to be good for 3-4psi back pressure. I had mine swapped for a Lukey straight through and it looks quite stock and is still very quiet. :cry:
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:20 pm

Reset the Scanguage to 'high' refresh rate and now it's almost instant in its 4 readouts with no problems.
The throttle body clearly closes to read o% on shut down as I was told. :oops:
99% open until 55c and then it shuts down to 20% over the next 3c until 58c when it's doing its thing which is 20% up to about 1/4 accelerator and 99% everywhere else.

What got me was cruising at 120kph on the flat with 6.5psi boost it was still at 20% so the amount of time it's at 20% is very significant and fuel consumption can likely be improved by getting this thing to stay open all the time and just shut when the engine is turned off. Better performance accelerating and climbing hills too, as noticed by those who can turn it off or have unplugged it.

So how can we trick the throttle body into thinking the coolant is below 55c or stop it getting that signal?
Could it be turned off after 58c and turned back on again to disable it but still get the smooth shutdown?
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby RHKTriton on Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:47 pm

The ideal solution to my way of thinking would be an in line module that takes the actuator signal and feeds back what ever value the ECU wants to be happy and essentially leave the flap open until the value is detected for engine shut off.

Its pretty amazing just how much the flap moves about during driving.

Another idea I had a while back was to use the EGR signal to kill the Flap when its trying to do its DIRTY stuff.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby coxy47 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:13 pm

RHKTriton wrote:The ideal solution to my way of thinking would be an in line module that takes the actuator signal and feeds back what ever value the ECU wants to be happy and essentially leave the flap open until the value is detected for engine shut off.

Its pretty amazing just how much the flap moves about during driving.

Another idea I had a while back was to use the EGR signal to kill the Flap when its trying to do its DIRTY stuff.


I agree that would be an ideal way to go but it would take some clever wiring to get it right. Ive also had the idea of using the egr valves signal to counteract the throttle but decided it was to much hassle with how sensitive these ecus are to voltage variances.

Personally i think that short of an extensive engine tuning overhaul i doubt think we will struggle to find an effective electrical solution.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Longranger1 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:19 pm

coxy47 wrote:
RHKTriton wrote:The ideal solution to my way of thinking would be an in line module that takes the actuator signal and feeds back what ever value the ECU wants to be happy and essentially leave the flap open until the value is detected for engine shut off.

Its pretty amazing just how much the flap moves about during driving.

Another idea I had a while back was to use the EGR signal to kill the Flap when its trying to do its DIRTY stuff.


I agree that would be an ideal way to go but it would take some clever wiring to get it right. Ive also had the idea of using the egr valves signal to counteract the throttle but decided it was to much hassle with how sensitive these ecus are to voltage variances.

Personally i think that short of an extensive engine tuning overhaul i doubt think we will struggle to find an effective electrical solution.



Agreed. That's why I took the approach I did, too much arsing around and believe me, I thought that over for a good while. I couldn't be bothered resetting CEL's etc.

The ultimate solution is writing the egr function out altogether via Ecutek tuning or similar and even that solution needs a bit of retuning to work (who wants to be the first! $$$). Mechanical emulation after fitting the blank (tee'd MAP line to the transfer pipe and exhaust gas substitution to the egr valve), is the cheapest, easiest and perhaps the most reliable and satisfying approach I think for most folks if they are keen. That ticks the boxes for me anyway. ;) Not everyone would agree so each to their own. :)
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:09 pm

RHKTriton wrote:The ideal solution to my way of thinking would be an in line module that takes the actuator signal and feeds back what ever value the ECU wants to be happy and essentially leave the flap open until the value is detected for engine shut off.

Its pretty amazing just how much the flap moves about during driving.

Another idea I had a while back was to use the EGR signal to kill the Flap when its trying to do its DIRTY stuff.


The electrical signal solutions are frustrating for me because I know next to nothing about that area but what you say sounds logical. Could it be wired so that it's closed instead of open with the power off and just fully open with the power on and the signals from the ECU are sent to a dummy relay? :?
There has to be a relatively easy way to get this poxy thing to play the tune we want?

I've got a 6 hour round trip soon and will try unplugging it for the duration to see what it does for the economy bearing in mind I get a pretty consistant 8L/100km.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby RHKTriton on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:09 pm

8/100? ya drive like a granny Sierra?

You could also cut the actuator to flap shaft connection. Leave the flap open and the rest carries on like alls well.

You'd have to live with the run on when shutting down but a bit of air to purge any fuel vapour can't be bad?

Other option would be to pick up a spare actuator/sensor unit and simply plug this into the cable and leave the throttle assembly alone.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby sierra on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:45 am

RHKTriton wrote:8/100? ya drive like a granny Sierra?
You could also cut the actuator to flap shaft connection. Leave the flap open and the rest carries on like alls well.
You'd have to live with the run on when shutting down but a bit of air to purge any fuel vapour can't be bad?
Other option would be to pick up a spare actuator/sensor unit and simply plug this into the cable and leave the throttle assembly alone.


:oops: I keep up with the traffic, cruise about 3-4kph over the limit on cruise except for 110kph where I usually stick to about 107kph because that seems to make a difference. Love to leave the traffic behind when the limit increases, overtake more than most but otherwise use the 1500-2000rpm sweet spot.
It's relatively light and uncluttered, that must help?

2 good ideas there! Have you looked to see how the actuator is connected and if it could be removed or disconnected?
I might price the unit to see what is available.
The lumpy shut down makes it feel like an old knackered petrol motor but at least with a manual you could stick it in a high gear and kill it with the clutch.
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Newguy on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:30 pm

Ok, so I have just replaced the aircleaner, cleaned the MAF ( 39,000KM and it was Dirty ), filled up with Diesel and reset the milage. EGR Blocked, Piggy Back Chip, 2011 2.5 Did Triton 39,000KM, used to get standard on the open road 8.1L/100KM at 110kmph avg 70KM. After the work i think i will get 950-1100Km Tank, I carry 4-500Kg with figures about 1L more.
Hauls ass i Reckon. Specially in 4th from 60Ks... :lol:
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Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby srb on Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:07 pm

:shock: Wow i can only dream about getting those figures you guys are sporting! Are these km's taken with a GPS? Cause if your on stock tyres you speedo will be telling you lies. :? Around town I usually get about 550 -580km's before the light comes on. The weight I carry and heavier tyres must have something to do with It cause I used to get 750+ with standard tyres an empty tray and no ladders on my roof. :roll:

Opps off topic! :oops: Back on topic... Blank plate = no carbon, EGR, Throttle flap bypass bla bla... :P
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