Closing the EGR Valve *check first post for links*

[RHKTriton]

Hey sloppyjoe, where are you actually installing the plate?

There is really no reason for the plate to cause a light as there is no measurement of gas flow in the EGR circuit. From what I can remember in the wiring diagram & bits involved, the ECU just runs a routine set on the loud pedal position, revs, speed, etc and opens the EGR valve to preset amounts. Like the Throttle hardware the position of the valve is probably read by the ECU so it can tell that it is moving.

Sierra

I was thinking about making up an intermediate wiring loom to sit between the plug & socket on the throttle to enable taking some measurements. I was thinking about having a relay in line with one of the leads that drives the flap to close and disable this with a relay while the engine is running. Shut the ignition off and the relay restores normal operation. ( or something along this line).

I plugged the throttle plug back in this arvo before a 15km trip and the engine light stayed lit. After another short run it had gone out again. So far I'm convinced that the ECU will alarm various conditions and if the "fault" goes away for a preset period it cancels.

[sierra]

Sierra
I was thinking about making up an intermediate wiring loom to sit between the plug & socket on the throttle to enable taking some measurements. I was thinking about having a relay in line with one of the leads that drives the flap to close and disable this with a relay while the engine is running. Shut the ignition off and the relay restores normal operation. ( or something along this line).
I plugged the throttle plug back in this arvo before a 15km trip and the engine light stayed lit. After another short run it had gone out again. So far I'm convinced that the ECU will alarm various conditions and if the "fault" goes away for a preset period it cancels.

Electrical systems are my weak area but will try to follow. Just pulled the hose off again to confirm it's open with no power and spring loaded in that position. Doesn't it need an electrical thingy that consumes the same power as the motor that drives the butterfly to fool the ECU, might be a resistor or diode? The relay could divert the power to the resistor? on ignition and back to the motor when it gets turned off when it might be on the circuit that stays on for a short while for windows etc and also to shut the throttle to stop the engine cleanly?
Good idea to get in the middle to measure currents and voltages, also if it stays powered for a few secs after the ignition is turned off.
Can I put my name down for one when you make it?

[Notso]

I think this has been said before but what the $%^&,

If you close off the EGR line their will be a bit more exhaust gas available to the turbo, this will vary depending on when the EGR opens and closes, so wouldn't the engine light refer to an overboost condition or something like that.

I know most also change the stopper screw on the torbo actuator so maybe there are differences in what people do to this that cause the fault condition.

[sierra]

If you close off the EGR line their will be a bit more exhaust gas available to the turbo, this will vary depending on when the EGR opens and closes, so wouldn't the engine light refer to an overboost condition or something like that.

The wastegate controls the boost through the actuator arm, so in theory the extra exhaust should only make it boost sooner but to the same PSI limit and with higher oxygen levels. Maybe there's an O2 sensor that's being pushed to it's operating parameters?

[85HiluxSR5]

got my plate in the mail, will post results soon, will install in the next few weeks

[Steane]

It's all good from my perspective Alex. My plates been in for around 3000kms with no sign of any issue. A little noisier on a cold start but that aside it's running fine.

I've got a DP Chip fitted and I have the new style manifold after having the carbon problem rear its head at just 14000km.

I've also fitted a Provent 200 crankcase vapour filter to keep the oil out of the intake system as I've read enough to be convinced that sucking oil through the PCV valve isn't great for turbo diesels.

[sloppyjoe24]

i had mine installed the same as nifty67.. http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad90 ... 5Small.jpg
it only seems to happen on the longer trips, the light didn't come on straight away, only after driving with the lack of power/cruise control before the engine light comes on. and i regularly go on 700km trips so turning the car off for 10 seconds every 100-150kms isn't really one of my favourite things to be doing along the way...

[RHKTriton]

Brainwave! ( or lack of sleep )

Might look into using the signal to the EGR valve to counter operation of Throttle flap.

EGRs generally don't operate until engines warm up to certain temp. Throttle is most likely operating in sync with EGR - just the time we want it open. EGR will be off during idle and when switching engine off.

Re the soot - when I looked into the manifold at around 4000k, you could already see a layer forming beyond the EGR port.

If you think back to when EGR was first used on our local cars (petrol engines), it was common for the base of some carbys and inlet manifolds to have holes corrode through them.

Re location of plate: I installed mine at the flange straight off the exhaust manifold (where the Ba*&(^d bolt lives). Plus have the boost screw about half way up orig spacing.

[4wd26]

I'm thinking that a lot might be to do with the amount of km's on a vehicle prior to the install.
mine had done approx 25,000kms and the install of the plate resulted in a fault code and other problems.

Now, fixed under warenty with a new manifold and map sensor.

I'm thinking that distrubing the gaskets etc when installing the plate might impact on the map sensor and create error codes.

So the plate does not cause problems? but posibly the install does?

Just a thought

[rick]

i have the new manifold fitted and the blanking gasket and the actuator arm screwed right up and have never had a light come on yet.

[GLX-R Alex]

Its wierd some have no problems or little and others have full blown fault condition...

[jop]

I'm thinking that a lot might be to do with the amount of km's on a vehicle prior to the install.
mine had done approx 25,000kms and the install of the plate resulted in a fault code and other problems.

Now, fixed under warenty with a new manifold and map sensor.

I'm thinking that distrubing the gaskets etc when installing the plate might impact on the map sensor and create error codes.

So the plate does not cause problems? but posibly the install does?

Just a thought

Yeah i have been waiting for a manifold clean or replacement till i put mine in.

[Eelesy]

i have the new manifold fitted and the blanking gasket and the actuator arm screwed right up and have never had a light come on yet.

Same here. i been away for a bit and when i get back on its a bit hard to get up to speed with everything.

From what i can gather lots of utes are throwing up fault codes but i havnt had a problem yet?

[Naff]

No fault codes for me - just the stuttering, I may well put the plate back in once I get my new manifold (dialing Mitsubishi now). I'll also reset the ECU this time around.

I still think it's a good idea Alex, don't take objection to anyones comments on faults - it's not a consistent enough problem. As someone else mentioned, there's enough brains on this to come to a conclusion.

[sierra]

I still think it's a good idea Alex, don't take objection to anyones comments on faults - it's not a consistent enough problem. As someone else mentioned, there's enough brains on this to come to a conclusion.

We could always do a survey to compare results with kms at installation/covered, carbon problems, resetting the ECU etc?
We probably need that at this stage to be able to reach a conclusion?

[tritondan]

i agree, but maybe start another post to contain only that information.
if others have already posted they could easy repost

OR do we have a survey qestion option thing on this forum?

i dont understand all the technicals but im enjoying the knowledge of keeping the engine safe and have had only one limp mode experience. apart from that - all good

[tokirky]

here's me thinking out loud.
Closing the EGR increases emissions, a lot of newish cars have an emissions senor after the CAT convertor some even have one before and after the CAT. What if the codes relate to increased NO2. Some codes take a while to show because of historical data in the ECU????

[RHKTriton]

Latest run without Throttle plug connected.

Drove from LaTrobe Valley to Melb, first stop about 70km with no light. On restarting got a light and on for balance of trip. Had around 11l/100 showing from start of trip ( many from carrying ladder during the week and heading into sh&t weather).

Refueled in the burbs, reset the fuel & trip meters and got around 8.7 on first 50km ( urban and 100kph ) and then snuck up to around 9.3 for most of 110kph section with last bit mainly up hill taking it up to 9.6l/100. Bit of tail wind on way home.

The vehicle felt brisker in the burbs and seemed to coast along more willingly on the open road when lifting off the pedal.

Will reconnect the plug for next section to see how long the light takes to reset.

[sierra]

So it really does seem to just be there for the EGR valve to increase the flow.
Have you got a Scangauge or similar so you can reset it if it really spits the dummy?
What was is like when you turned it off, did it shut of cleanly or hang on a bit like it did before?

No reply or feedback from MRT on the throttle valve, maybe it's a trade secret?

[Tritium]

How is the butterfly attached to the shaft?

My TD Jackaroo 4jx1 used to have a warm up butterfly in the exhaust to generate back pressure - forcing more exhaust gas back into the EGR till it warmed up. This added additional restriction in the exhaust and occaisionally they would stick. They were activated electrically were operated by a vacuum connected actuator. The butterfly was connected to the shaft with screws which allowed for easy removal.

The Jackaroo also had a throttle butterfly at the start of the inlet manifold and also suffered carbon build up issues. The throttle butterfly was actually made by Mitsubishi and used to wear out from 60-100k. There was a motor drive on one end of the shaft and a variable resistor on the other end for feedback. The resistor would wear through in one fairly small section which appeared to be the main operating position.

[RHKTriton]

I haven't got a Scangauge but looking at getting one in the near future.

Been running around today and all seems well; still turns over a cycle on shutdown.
Its a pity that the servo module on the throttle is riveted onto the throttle body - tamper proofed!
The flap looks riveted or screwed and peened on the ends.

I'm going to check out what signals are on the EGR and Throttle cables when I get a chance. Should be able to use the "force" against itself - ie. EGR control to counter Throttle motor. This should also restore normal shutdown.

The EGR signal may also be able to trigger a water injector - would probably provide similar pollution control for the tree-huggers and provide cleaning. This may keep the lights out during hotter weather; whats the thoughts out there?

[Blue]

here's me thinking out loud.
Closing the EGR increases emissions, a lot of newish cars have an emissions senor after the CAT convertor some even have one before and after the CAT. What if the codes relate to increased NO2. Some codes take a while to show because of historical data in the ECU????

To the best of my knowledge there are no emissions sensors in the exhaust - Mr Silver manufactured his own staino exhaust(turbo back) with no mention of the need for sensor fitment...

[sierra]

I wouldn't be game to do what you're doing without being able to reset the codes.
The ideal solution would be to leave the butterfly there to give a normal shutdown if nothing else.
The water injection might be used on the intercooler[external cooling] or into the inlet manifold after the compressor but before the intercooler.
Hey, I'm a tree hugger but I still like the toys.

[brenze87]

guys i have spent like 1½ trying to remove the bolt closest to the firewall and right next to that damm air con pipe. cant seem to get anything onto the bolt properly except a spanner then i cant turn it

just wondering what combination of tools have you guys been using to get this bolt out and also why cant we put the plate up the top near the rocker cover?

thanks

[rick]

spanner and popeye arms........... no mate put a ring spanner on the bolt and use another ring end as a lever ontop of the 1st spanner. ya get me???