Closing the EGR Valve *check first post for links*

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Longranger1 on Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:30 pm

i've done about 6000 kms now with the plate fitted (MN) with one limpy. Happened at a constant 70km/h with cruise control on. Sure does kill power output when it happened. A quick OBD 2 code clear and I was away and haven't touch wood had another since then 4000km ago. The code reads as low turbocharger/supercharger boost (underboost).

These limpies seem only to occur at constant light throttle openings so maybe there is some merit in "driving like you stole it"!
The voices in my head may not be real, but they do have some damned good ideas.

If it's feral, it's in peril.

MN turbo lag? What lag??

99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
User avatar
Longranger1
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:37 pm
Location: Townsville NQ


 

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby mad992 on Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:37 pm

Longranger1 wrote:i've done about 6000 kms now with the plate fitted (MN) with one limpy. Happened at a constant 70km/h with cruise control on. Sure does kill power output when it happened. A quick OBD 2 code clear and I was away and haven't touch wood had another since then 4000km ago. The code reads as low turbocharger/supercharger boost (underboost).

These limpies seem only to occur at constant light throttle openings so maybe there is some merit in "driving like you stole it"!



6mm hole in blanking plate
a working catch can
= happy days
User avatar
mad992
 
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:32 am
Location: Shittesville

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Bammo on Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:33 pm

Longranger1 wrote:These limpies seem only to occur at constant light throttle openings so maybe there is some merit in "driving like you stole it"!


Absolutely - have only ever got CEL/limp modes when gently reversing the car or puttering along. When my wife drives the car she gets them all the time, same reason I think.
Bammo
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby snowman on Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:21 pm

blanking plate is out. :(

thanks to Brendan at Ultimate who allowed me to call in on my way south and take it out using their tools. 8-)

always happened on very light or even backing off on light throttle.
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
User avatar
snowman
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:59 pm
Location: Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby NTBB on Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:14 am

Well at least you know the egr is not pouring in under any other conditions now.
Do you feel you might still have carbon problems later even with the ecu teck :?:
I bought my 4wd out of NEED not want.
User avatar
NTBB
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:42 pm
Location: SA

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby mad992 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:25 am

snowman wrote:blanking plate is out. :(

thanks to Brendan at Ultimate who allowed me to call in on my way south and take it out using their tools. 8-)

always happened on very light or even backing off on light throttle.



SNOW,have u put a 6mm hole to equalise pressure mate :!:
User avatar
mad992
 
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:32 am
Location: Shittesville

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby snowman on Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:46 pm

No.

Firstly i am emailing CCM (Chris) to see of the tune can be changed to leave it closed.

If there is no love there then yes i may as well drill the hole as the plate is no good to me as it is.

The limpies are always on light throttle so maybe the small hole will be enough. the thing is that it is letting some crap through and some is too much in my opinion. although with the MRT tune it will be only at idle i am told.

Still there is a lot of idle - or off throttle - over the life of the motor.
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
User avatar
snowman
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:59 pm
Location: Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Bammo on Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:27 pm

Snowie,

Had the 6mm hole for a week now in mine - no sign of a limpy despite trying hard and subjectively the car feels the same as it did before so seems to be a winner to me.
Bammo
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:00 pm

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby CHIP IT on Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:30 pm

snowman wrote:blanking plate is out. :(

thanks to Brendan at Ultimate who allowed me to call in on my way south and take it out using their tools. 8-)

always happened on very light or even backing off on light throttle.


Snowman, you need to try one of our chips :D

For those that have a Chip from us, we now have new tunes for EGR Blanking Mod and these seem to be stopping even the fussy vehicles. For those that wish to try these, email justin@chipit.com.au the tune you are now running with and explain what you want (so he know what you what) and he will redo the numbers and email you back the new tune.

Donations kindly appreciated :mrgreen:
CHIP IT
Diesel Performance Solutions from SPV Industries (An authorised dealer)
-power when you need it-


Web: http://www.chipit.com.au

For forum discounts, please contact tony@spvindustries.com or PM Chipit
User avatar
CHIP IT
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:52 am

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Fnordy on Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:46 pm

I went back to factory tunes with the 6mm hole in EGR plate (SQL work done and too lazy to disconnect). Had a P0299 three times in four days / 60kms.

Will reload the F2 custom tune written for me the other day - didn't have any probs with that!

Would be interesting to work out why some bring up the CEL with an EGR/6mm hole and some don't.

It is definitely linked to period of idle / low revs though in my case too!
Fnordy

MY10 GLX-R Manual Diesel (loads of mods - see shed)
MY09 200 Series VX Landcruiser (stock standard with Poly Airbags & UHF)

MY09 Giant TCR-Advanced 1
MY10 Specialized Epic Expert Carbon
Fnordy
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby snowman on Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:01 pm

CHIP IT wrote:
snowman wrote:blanking plate is out. :(

thanks to Brendan at Ultimate who allowed me to call in on my way south and take it out using their tools. 8-)

always happened on very light or even backing off on light throttle.


Snowman, you need to try one of our chips :D

For those that have a Chip from us, we now have new tunes for EGR Blanking Mod and these seem to be stopping even the fussy vehicles. For those that wish to try these, email justin@chipit.com.au the tune you are now running with and explain what you want (so he know what you what) and he will redo the numbers and email you back the new tune.

Donations kindly appreciated :mrgreen:


i own one of your Chips........ :? :lol:
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
User avatar
snowman
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:59 pm
Location: Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby DPS TRITON on Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:01 pm

Hi FNORDY , the EGR is monitored through the MAP sensor, via the millivolt readings in the idle to light cruise as this is the test period of the 19min drive cycle for the ADR79/01 EURO4&5 vehicle emmision type testing. The test really simulates conjested driving in europe, nothing that reflects our driving conditions except for peak hour over the causeway in Perth & peak hour in sydney / melb ect . The complete test is very light acceleration that I have been involved with at Orbital Corporation in Balcatta Perth that are also OEM consultants to the vehicle industry. Anyway the type testing approves the vehicle to this emmision standard , flooding the combustion process with exhaust gas displaces our oxygen enriched cool air intake and creates a poor combustion which directly effects NOX emmisions , this is all done in bablance as their are 5 emmisions that are tested CO,CO2, Hydro Carbons,NOX & Diesel particulates , there is a total bag weight measured at the completion of the test as well as maximum allowable limits of each of the 5 emmisions that must be kept under there limit for compliance to the above standards. Adding to this when ever you have a possitive effect on any single emmision this is always offset by a negative on another making the hole compliance issue a juggling act by the tuning engineers between power/economy & a balance of the 5 individual emmisions and keeping this all under a total bag weight at the end of the test , believe me it sounds easier than it is and takes several months to tune these vehicles from initial development. Anyway why does it detect EGR fault , The code thrown is a turbo underboost code , as the amount of exhaust gas that enters the cylinder fill at idle & light cruise is as much as 50% of your total cylinder fill , this pressurises your manifold & increases the output readings to the factory ecu ,so eg: at light cruise yr MAP reading is between 1000-2000mv , so lets say at 60km/hr at 20% throttle & 2000rpm your MAP sensor reads 1450mv when you blank the EGR this will reduce to say 1200mv as the exhaust is no longer pressurising the intake manifold & cylinder chambers and as we are lucky to be making boost by this stage or very little & hence running as would a non turbo naturally aspirated engine and the vehicle ecu detects that it should be reading a value of 1450ish mv by this stage & throws a fault code - turbo underboost. This is where we go in via the MAP sensor with the CHIPIT ecu and tell the factory ecu we are making 1450mv when in fact we are making 1200mv. Keeping in mind that idle to light cruise is 1000mv - 2000mv there are 1000 set points that we need to set some of, so that our ecu can do all the interpolation smoothly between the points we have set. This is why sometimes it takes me 2 or 3 goes on some fussy vehicle to nail it :D . And then a new model comes out and things change a little and i have to change the setting a to keep up. After a few recent ones like the MN2.5 which is by far fussier than the 3.2 Triton and equally as fussy as the 3.2 Pajero I seem to be keeping the Factory ecu happy all things are where they should be, including the recent reflash in the numbers I have done to yours.
Mitsifreaks MN 2.5 Auto that I did the other day is not running a 6mm hole at all in the EGR blank which helps to compensate should I not be bang on with my lies to the factory ecu , which is almost as hard as lying to the missus and getting away with it :lol: . Anyway fingures crossed the bitch has fallen for it , his factory engine management system that is , which trust me it is as confusing and logical as our female species :? . Being a few days now all seems well and these numbers I have been using recently in the 2.5MN & Pajero seem to be working , time will tell to see if I need to update my lies to cover up my other lies . Between this and my missus it can be a mind f...k .
Note in the 3.2 Triton The code is low manifold pressure , basically the same thing, often no requirement to lie to the 3.2 is required in the MAP sensor low down for EGR, as just fitting the Chip via the rail increases low end boost enough due to the extra fuel, Chips that add fuel via the rail on the 3.2 are usually succesful in doing this , this can not be said for systems that chip via the injectors , I have removed several injector style systems as Rob did yesterday in Sydney that started with S & ended in R on a Pajero as the gentlemen was not happy with it , test drove a chip that started with C & ended in it for a hour & purchased :D , the injector style systems are not as good at producing low down torque and bringing on boost earlier due to the fact they only play with the offset of the injector duration & not the onset (opening) , this produces no effect of advanced combustion timing and hence lower torque & power outputs especially at lower lighter throttle & RPM. You will see a lot of these systems belching black smoke at the same max power outputs of Rail type systems, as you can only hold a injector open for so long & it be efficent in the combustion process , rather than get more fuel in during the optimal injection timing setout by the factory ecu taking into account many considerations like RPM , Boost, throttle positions , fuel temp, coolant temp , air intake temp
,cam & crank angle position & Fuel Rail pressure , Yes there is a direct correlation of injection duration including advance based on what the fuel pressures the factory ecu believes there are.
The factory ecu decides when to open & close the injector of up to 4 injection cycles per intake and the fuel pressure it commands to the pump & monitors via the Rail sensor based on the output required.

Cheers All Justin
Chipit DPS Triton

Fnordy wrote:I went back to factory tunes with the 6mm hole in EGR plate (SQL work done and too lazy to disconnect). Had a P0299 three times in four days / 60kms.

Will reload the F2 custom tune written for me the other day - didn't have any probs with that!

Would be interesting to work out why some bring up the CEL with an EGR/6mm hole and some don't.

It is definitely linked to period of idle / low revs though in my case too!
DPS TRITON
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:36 am

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby DPS TRITON on Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:04 pm

Thats Great ;) Can you email me justin@chipit.com.au tell me what tune you are running or email it to me , I will beef up the MAP sensor figures , read my post below FYI . I will email you the tune back to flash in .

Cheers Justin

snowman wrote:
CHIP IT wrote:
snowman wrote:blanking plate is out. :(

thanks to Brendan at Ultimate who allowed me to call in on my way south and take it out using their tools. 8-)

always happened on very light or even backing off on light throttle.


Snowman, you need to try one of our chips :D

For those that have a Chip from us, we now have new tunes for EGR Blanking Mod and these seem to be stopping even the fussy vehicles. For those that wish to try these, email justin@chipit.com.au the tune you are now running with and explain what you want (so he know what you what) and he will redo the numbers and email you back the new tune.

Donations kindly appreciated :mrgreen:


i own one of your Chips........ :? :lol:
DPS TRITON
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:36 am

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby CHIP IT on Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:43 pm

snowman wrote:
CHIP IT wrote:
snowman wrote:blanking plate is out. :(

thanks to Brendan at Ultimate who allowed me to call in on my way south and take it out using their tools. 8-)

always happened on very light or even backing off on light throttle.


Snowman, you need to try one of our chips :D

For those that have a Chip from us, we now have new tunes for EGR Blanking Mod and these seem to be stopping even the fussy vehicles. For those that wish to try these, email justin@chipit.com.au the tune you are now running with and explain what you want (so he know what you what) and he will redo the numbers and email you back the new tune.

Donations kindly appreciated :mrgreen:


i own one of your Chips........ :? :lol:


I thought you were a smart man. 8-) ;)
CHIP IT
Diesel Performance Solutions from SPV Industries (An authorised dealer)
-power when you need it-


Web: http://www.chipit.com.au

For forum discounts, please contact tony@spvindustries.com or PM Chipit
User avatar
CHIP IT
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:52 am

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby snowman on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:30 am

DPS TRITON wrote:Snowman, you need to try one of our chips :D

For those that have a Chip from us, we now have new tunes for EGR Blanking Mod and these seem to be stopping even the fussy vehicles. For those that wish to try these, email justin@chipit.com.au the tune you are now running with and explain what you want (so he know what you what) and he will redo the numbers and email you back the new tune.

Donations kindly appreciated :mrgreen:


Justin,

Sorry for the confusion. i do own one of your chips - i took it out for the MRT tune. Well documented in other threads so i wont detail here. For the record i did not get one limp mode whilst using your Chip and although i specifically cannot remember the tune it was the one you provided (i told you i had EGR plate) and was NOT running the MAP connection or boost controller.

Continuing on from your detailed post though, this is the text that interests me..... a lot :o

"The code thrown is a turbo underboost code , as the amount of exhaust gas that enters the cylinder fill at idle & light cruise is as much as 50% of your total cylinder fill "

........and why i am not happy with an open EGR at idle. Thank you for the technical info - it is appreciated.
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
User avatar
snowman
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:59 pm
Location: Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Fnordy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:07 am

Thanks heaps Justin for taking the time and working through the detail.

Explains why I only get the prob with chip out (or on factory tune). Loading my Chip IT tune back in this morning!

Cheers
Fnordy

MY10 GLX-R Manual Diesel (loads of mods - see shed)
MY09 200 Series VX Landcruiser (stock standard with Poly Airbags & UHF)

MY09 Giant TCR-Advanced 1
MY10 Specialized Epic Expert Carbon
Fnordy
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby mad992 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:32 pm

Bammo wrote:Snowie,

Had the 6mm hole for a week now in mine - no sign of a limpy despite trying hard and subjectively the car feels the same as it did before so seems to be a winner to me.




bammo ,i am with u brother iam happy ive reduced the hole diameter of 30mm to 6mm in our egr
imagine all the crud not going into our intakes
with no limpo
yahhh win win ;)
User avatar
mad992
 
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:32 am
Location: Shittesville

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Fnordy on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:20 pm

Just a thought Snowie (and perhaps JR could confirm) but what about a factory tune on the injectors and just beefed up Map sensor (essentially running the Chip IT only to fix the EGR problem).

It should be do-able - even possibly if you use a standard tune and only connect the map sensor, not primary sensor?

Seeing as you own it ... put it to use!
Fnordy

MY10 GLX-R Manual Diesel (loads of mods - see shed)
MY09 200 Series VX Landcruiser (stock standard with Poly Airbags & UHF)

MY09 Giant TCR-Advanced 1
MY10 Specialized Epic Expert Carbon
Fnordy
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:58 am
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Longranger1 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:44 pm

So.... With a minimal MAP voltage setting the ecu into limp mode with the egr blocked, maybe a minimal voltage feed to just above threshold values to the MAP sensor output, dioded to prevent interference from voltage back flow when the MAP voltage increases will do the trick. Maybe a bit of electrical wizardry can overcome the problem without affecting normal operating parameters 8-) .

Now to map out the circuitry, design a voltage reg system to trick the ecu via the MAP sensor, off to jaycar to get some bits and we are away 8-) .

Somehow I dont think it will be a simple exercise. Just go with the plate with a 6mm hole and a catch can.

If only I had the bloody time.....
The voices in my head may not be real, but they do have some damned good ideas.

If it's feral, it's in peril.

MN turbo lag? What lag??

99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
User avatar
Longranger1
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:37 pm
Location: Townsville NQ

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby mad992 on Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:06 pm

Longranger1 wrote:So....
Somehow I dont think it will be a simple exercise. Just go with the plate with a 6mm hole and a catch can.

If only I had the bloody time.....





x2
User avatar
mad992
 
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:32 am
Location: Shittesville

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby DPS TRITON on Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:18 pm

Hi yes buy if you give it a constant higher reading you will reduce your max boost on a 2.5MN HP and on a 3.2 you will go into limp mode as when you make 15psi and your waste gate actuator is about to bleed off some boost your factory ecu will think your making 17-18psi and put you into overboost (limp) you have to tell it yr making more before telling it your making same as actual or less if wanting to run a manual boost controller :geek:

Justin.


Longranger1 wrote:So.... With a minimal MAP voltage setting the ecu into limp mode with the egr blocked, maybe a minimal voltage feed to just above threshold values to the MAP sensor output, dioded to prevent interference from voltage back flow when the MAP voltage increases will do the trick. Maybe a bit of electrical wizardry can overcome the problem without affecting normal operating parameters 8-) .

Now to map out the circuitry, design a voltage reg system to trick the ecu via the MAP sensor, off to jaycar to get some bits and we are away 8-) .

Somehow I dont think it will be a simple exercise. Just go with the plate with a 6mm hole and a catch can.

If only I had the bloody time.....
DPS TRITON
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:36 am

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby NTBB on Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:14 pm

snowman wrote:No.

Firstly i am emailing CCM (Chris) to see of the tune can be changed to leave it closed.If there is no love there then yes i may as well drill the hole as the plate is no good to me as it is.

The limpies are always on light throttle so maybe the small hole will be enough. the thing is that it is letting some crap through and some is too much in my opinion. although with the MRT tune it will be only at idle i am told.

Still there is a lot of idle - or off throttle - over the life of the motor.


So how did it go snowy :?:
I bought my 4wd out of NEED not want.
User avatar
NTBB
 
Posts: 698
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:42 pm
Location: SA

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby Longranger1 on Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:35 pm

[quote="DPS TRITON"]Hi yes buy if you give it a constant higher reading you will reduce your max boost on a 2.5MN HP and on a 3.2 you will go into limp mode as when you make 15psi and your waste gate actuator is about to bleed off some boost your factory ecu will think your making 17-18psi and put you into overboost (limp) you have to tell it yr making more before telling it your making same as actual or less if wanting to run a manual boost controller :geek:

Justin.

The idea is to have a minimal threshold voltage but retain the normal voltage rise with boost thus cutting the underboost limp mode. I don't know if that would affect low throttle fueling though :geek: .
The voices in my head may not be real, but they do have some damned good ideas.

If it's feral, it's in peril.

MN turbo lag? What lag??

99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
User avatar
Longranger1
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:37 pm
Location: Townsville NQ

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby snowman on Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:00 pm

NTBB wrote:
snowman wrote:No.

Firstly i am emailing CCM (Chris) to see of the tune can be changed to leave it closed.If there is no love there then yes i may as well drill the hole as the plate is no good to me as it is.

The limpies are always on light throttle so maybe the small hole will be enough. the thing is that it is letting some crap through and some is too much in my opinion. although with the MRT tune it will be only at idle i am told.

Still there is a lot of idle - or off throttle - over the life of the motor.


So how did it go snowy :?:


Chris is towing trailers around the country at the moment and doesn't want to change the tune but he will adjust his tune when he gets back and see if it works OK.

i assume if it does i will modify mine. Meanwhile i don't leave mine idling....... :(
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
User avatar
snowman
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 12031
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:59 pm
Location: Toongabbie, NSW

Re: Closing the EGR Valve

Postby mad992 on Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:02 pm

my triton is running like a train absolutely fantastic really happy now since egr plate with 6mm hole and catch can :) love that car
User avatar
mad992
 
Posts: 3072
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:32 am
Location: Shittesville

PreviousNext

Return to Tips & Tricks

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest