handling completely altered by rear & bull bar.....normal?

[AussieAnth]

Hi All

I had a 2" EFS Elite suspension kit installed several weeks ago on my MN 2013 GLX dual cab. As I always had a bull bar and rear bar planned, I had heavy duty springs installed up front, and 150kg constant load rear leaf springs installed (I have an Ironman canopy also).

My 4x4 mechanic said when he handed back the keys, "you'll need a mouth guard to stop your teeth chattering", as it really firmed up the ride. Very direct handling, bugger all body roll, and a BIG improvement over the wallowing factory suspension setup. I know stiff ain't great for rough offroading, but it felt much nicer to drive on the black top.

Last Friday I installed an MCC rear Jack bar. The next day I drove to my mechanic to install the MCC bull bar, and I noted the back end felt a little soft or bouncy. On the way back, I was completely blown away by how much the handling has changed. Its basically back to feeling like factory. Body roll has returned, and it feels clumsier to drive again.

Is this to be expected? I know there are some EFS haters out there, but my mechanic swears by it, my mate has a Hilux with full bar work running a nice firm setup after 18months and its still firm and direct . Have the springs weakened? is this just the way it goes? Am I silly to expect the same handling after installing what cant be more than 100kg of steel onto the chassis?

I know the added weight is up front & back, so it might have a pendulum effect, comparing to passengers, gear & a tank of fuel which can weigh even more, but is more centered on the chassis.

Discussion?

[AussieAnth]

for the record, I somehow posted the above twice, once before I completed it

Ag9111 posted the following, before that duplicate thread was deleted.

Author: ag9111
Message:
No, If it was set up for more weight then it should handle fine.

Should not wallow at all

[Cowboy Dave]

I'm not an EFS hater as you put it, but just because a hilux went okay with it isn't really much of a guide.

Did you have any ride height measurements for before and after the bar work went on?

[AussieAnth]

I'm not an EFS hater as you put it, but just because a hilux went okay with it isn't really much of a guide.

Did you have any ride height measurements for before and after the bar work went on?

Ok good question Dave. I know the front came up 60mm & rear 50mm with the suspension upgrade, soI'll do some measurements this weekend and post back.

Im so surprised how dramatically different the handling is, and clearly the bar work is the cause.

I guess Im trying to understand if this is to be expected, or if I should question the quality or performance of the suspension.

[Cowboy Dave]

I'd be questioning it too.

[AussieAnth]

I'd be questioning it too.

Its entirely possible I might just have to adjust my expectations Dave .

Despite growing up in the back of a Landrover, and driving an 89 Landcruiser on my P's, most of my own 4x4 driver experience has been limited to an 08 BT-50 which I upgraded to EFS. I had no rear bar and alloy bull bar, so I didnt opt for heavy duty springs. Definitely wasn't firm like the Triton was for the first few weeks (wrote that BT-50 off 3 weeks later )

Maybe what I should be asking is.....after a full suspension upgrade, does the handling typically change much as the suspension settles after the first few weeks?

Maybe I'll be singing praise for EFS once I hit the Vic high country again and Im not chattering my teeth.
Maybe Im too focused on road handling, and not considering whats best for offroad.

[Cowboy Dave]

Mine drives like it's on rails and weighs near 3 tonnes - so it's possible. Not cheap, but possible.

[AussieAnth]

Mine drives like it's on rails and weighs near 3 tonnes - so it's possible. Not cheap, but possible.

How does it handle rough tracks? Have you compromised Offroad handling so it can "drive like it's on rails"?

[har05l]

My front and rear bars didn't alter my suspension either I also have some pretty bulky rock steps that'd weigh 20kg's + each also.

Like CD's mine drives like on rails, although not as heavy and I'm not afraid to give it extra pedal into corners either

I'd defiantly contact your suspension supplier to try and get an answer

[Cowboy Dave]

Handles like a mountain goat off-road but then it's twin locked so can climb like crazy. Admittedly I went with a rear sway bar as well for extra cornering benefits.

[triton_guru]

Pretty sure when u get constant load leafs they are closer to 3 inches rather then 2 untill they settle down, ive got 300kg constant load and its very stiff even with a 57kg battery in the back lol, the suspension guru told me that it will take about 300kg before the suspension is in its prime and soft or something but to be fair i dont have a rear or front bar, just go back to efs explain that u wanted heavy duty suspension due to the fact that u were installing bars later down the track and that now u have installed them they aren't working the way they are meant (possibly wrong spring rate).

[AussieAnth]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll go back to my installer and discuss. Good to know I should expect better than I've received.

[jarcain]

Just had my EFS 150kg constant load springs replaced today under warranty ,basically shot after 7 months .
Installer arranged to have a sales manager from Fulcrum suspension present on my arrival this morning at 8.00 am .
I take it that Fulcrum wanted to view vehicle , I,E weight / load I was and had been carrying .
Turns out he seemed shattered when I arrived , MCC rear bar , canopy , fridge and slide , , battery is all the weight I carry .
I also tow a dirt bike on a bike trailer once a month .
The springs squeaked and carried on after 3 weeks of being installed , three or four visits to installer where they either sprayed with PTFE lube or striped and cleaned, would fix for a few days but squeaking and some knocking would inevitably come back after a just few days .
During the last few weeks springs basically sagged a little and softened up which caused bodyroll and constant bouncing .

Originally fitted they were ok offroad , but would have caused me grief if I had continued with them .
Replacements who the sales manager handed to installer although stamped with same item code ( Mits 10-E seemed different from the onset , main difference where fixed spacers between springs of which originals did not have .
Wondering if EFS / Fulcrum are aware of an issue and have developed these springs further .
Two mates with D4O s both fitted with EFS springs are both commenting on squeaking progressively getting worse , both are less than six months old since fitted .

[Cowboy Dave]

And people wonder why quite a few forum members like to recommend certain brands and warn people away from others? It's posts like the above that stick with you for a long time.

[jarcain]

Trial and error can be a costly exercise .
I had no real preference when it came to rear leafs although I specified certain brands when it came to other suspension componentry .
Installer recommended EFS at the time .
These replacements may turn out to be adequate ? If not I guess im on my own and will be paying for alternative brand / manufacturer . . Although to date service from installer and EFS/ Fulcrum has been positive .

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah hopefully they'll sort you out mate, but the thing is that others have had EFS dramas before. Not trying to pay out on your choices or anything but we do get a lot of people asking for comments on various brands and when longstanding members give negative feedback and suggest alternatives known to be reliable there is a bit of a contingent on the forum that get their backs up about it. Anyway just one of little pet peeves so don't pay it any attention, just having a Friday night sook.

[har05l]

No sook CD, it's reality

When I was looking at upgrading I'd never heard of my suspension brand before (name withheld for favouritism reasons only)

I'd used on my previous 4wd tough dog and also rancho and never had an issue and was considering using one of them again for the triton. It's become apparent over the years that different suspensions seem to suit different vehicles better.

After the nat meet many years ago and talking to different forum members I ended up going with the flow and I must say never in 3 years now have I had an issue . They do squeak but tell me one brand of leaf that doesn't

This is my point of view only and I'm not dissing any other brand in any way what so ever

Hope you get it sorted jarcain

[fraz91]

AussieAnth, did you get a chance to check the vehicle heights now compared to when it was first installed? It sounds like when the suspension was fitted, it was sitting too high in the front. This can make the ride very firm if the upper-control arm is hard up against it's droop stop. Once the weight of the bull-bar was added, it would have dropped a bit (up to 15mm depending on coil strength and bull-bar used). This can take the UCA off the droop-stop, allowing the front suspension to move much more freely.

Unfortunately squeaky springs are a common issue on the Triton. The leaf design, while fairly short compared to other makes (D40, Hilux) moves extremely well and offers a lot of useable flex. This flexibility spins the individual leafs so they no longer line up, and the rubbing on the side clamps quite often causes a squeak. A simple fix is to climb under while a friend bounces the rear of the vehicle and listen for where the squeak is coming from. Then smack the offending leafs back into line with a hammer.

[AussieAnth]

Im determined to take some measurements and post them up. 8 week old son, Mothers day lunches Sat & Sunday, wifes birthday dinner tonight.....no bloody time!!

For those of you who describe your suspension setup like "driving on rails", how comfortable would you rate handling offroad?

Logic tells me that the firmer your suspension is on-road, the less travel you're likely to get & more uncomfortable the ride is going to be on a rough track, especially with corregations.

[quote="fraz91"]AussieAnth, did you get a chance to check the vehicle heights now compared to when it was first installed? It sounds like when the suspension was fitted, it was sitting too high in the front. This can make the ride very firm if the upper-control arm is hard up against it's droop stop. Once the weight of the bull-bar was added, it would have dropped a bit (up to 15mm depending on coil strength and bull-bar used). This can take the UCA off the droop-stop, allowing the front suspension to move much more freely.

[viking shippy]

Ozi Anthony
Hey ...I have one of those suspension setups that are described as on rails..
In my 35 years of driving and motor sport I've never come across a better designed and set up Custom suspension kitt...for off road vehicles.
These guys have unsurpassed knowledge,workshop equipment and back up..
And it shows in their package...I have no dealings with this company other than being a happy customer that is blown away by their customer service and workshop guarantee..
My ute handles on and off road with excellence.40k
So much so if my ute steps out or bounces around I put it down to driver error...
As these suspension packages are simply in my opinion
The best available...
these guys saw...the potential of these utes in the market place when nobody else had and spent a lot of time on R&D growing back 7 years now....
And it shows.....they are streets ahead of the competition.

[viking shippy]

Post script: I've driven some miles now on rough roads..
I absolutely hammer my truck on the road up to the barrington tops from glouster...
I'm surprised how it goes.it goes hard.....and fast...it handles well and doesn't surprise you at all.....I've never been the one to be over taken..on the dirt...these trucks with the ultimate suspension setup is just the ducks guts on graded and corrugated roads..

[c-dale]

Good work Shippy, someone finally came out and said it

[trouble]

Been saying this for years!

[viking shippy]

Yeh gota let the new guys know what the good gear is...I'm just going to cut and paste my post above from now on...lol

[har05l]

A few years ago on our way to the nat meet our group took a dirt rd out the back of Cobar. I had the camper in tow which weighs over a ton and a tub loaded to the hilt and at one point had to pull up for a pit stop as the rest of the group pushed on.

To catch up I pushed hard (100-110km/h) along a road that was not smooth by any means and never did the Ultimate feel it wasn't coping. 3 years and over 100k km's later I'm still as happy as the day it was fitted

As trouble and VS said it's been banged on about for years and probably by the same people time and time again but for a good reason.

@ Aussieanth, perhaps a member down your way with the ultimate gear could compare with yours and then you may, or may not feel what we fuss about