Recovery points

[mattz]

:lol:
Hopefully I won't be needing it in the near future

or I will be there to do the recovering.

[Mooons]

:lol:
Hopefully I won't be needing it in the near future

or I will be there to do the recovering.

This Sunday

[dan.batto]

Not having it will mean you WILL need it! Murphies law!

[mattz]

:lol:
Hopefully I won't be needing it in the near future

or I will be there to do the recovering.

This Sunday

only if you are heading up to the Murray river.
I might need recovering yet it pretty wet up here......the river is chockers......looks Awsome.

[Riguez]

X6 ARB Bar

Rear is easy if you have a tow bar.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TOW-4WD-5TON ... 2c62ebe081

And there are literally hundreds of different ones to choose from

they don't fit an arb bar though.
Arb in all their wisdom made their rear bar so a std recovery hitch doesn't fit it. and they don't even make or sell one to fit it either.

The one from 'extreme limits offroad' fits in Matt. Either on Ebay or their website.
http://www.extremelimitsoffroad.com.au/prod67.htm

Hi guys, does anyone who is using this tow bar recovery hitch in conjunction with the ARB rear step tow bar know whether the ARB bar itself is rated to be used in this manner? Just a thought ...

[Sky Miner]

After a pretty deep bog on the weekend my front recovery point's a bit bent... dealer reckons it's a body shop job so going to drop in and see what they have to say tomorrow. Pretty sure the rear TJM bar was dragging and scooping mud as i was being recovered which would have added to the load.

This has allso happend to me....but much worse the hook was compleatly strait' no longer usefull' and IMO heating it up and rebending it back into shape (i belive) would have weakened it....so it was removed
Only cuz when it came to installing the winch i couldn't remove the BB (needed to be dropped down to be removed) cuz the now badly damaged hook was in the way.....chop!!
Now working on a new recovery project.
Sorry for the 2 posts... but anyway moving along.........

[Sky Miner]

You guys see any reason why i cant mount a "rated tow hook" to either side of the bullbar where it bolts to the chassis and run a bridal strap between the two for snatch recoveries??? The two bolts circled in red actually go through the chassis i think from memory......the lower ones are through a bracket which clamps "around" the chassis.

As i dont have those stupid wing pieces like the ARB bars......there is nothing in the way of attaching the snatch strap......unless the recovery vehicle was up hill about 45deg.......then the strap would rub on the underedge of the bar....


(Click for full size)


Something like this i think

This is what i have been working on as well' my holes are 65mm C/C but the recovery hook holes are only 35mm
I quickly made up a 10mm plate that uses the existing bolts (i reckon thay should be changed to HT) but this was done
on a Sat arvo as a "something is better than nothing" project'
When i can get my hands on a bigger plate i intend to make it the same shape as the existing plate that you can see on there and simply match the two together and bolt em up.




This is by no means the finished product as i dont have alot of resources or time to do this on a W/E as i work 6 days a week and everything is closed when i knockoff so makes it dificult

Now let it rain "it's not rated "it's not certified "Your not a structural/mechanical engineer" i know i know
but rite now it's more than whats there. and im yet to find anything that you can buy off the shelf.

[Cowboy Dave]

I'm no expert but if I was doing this I'd delete the hook and replace it with a suitable sized hole in the blue plate. Most of the aftermarket recovery points I've seen thus far are done that way.

[Sky Miner]

hmmm...There might just be to much how could i say......to much of a sharp edge on the plate for anything other than a shackel to be hung off there' a hook on the other hand could be more.....gentler on any strap cuz of the broader face
the hook has....dunno JMO
Im no expert ether

[Hymie]

Thanks Mate now you've given me ideas but like Dave said I'd rather go with the suitable sized hole to fit a shackle to the plate.

Mind you the hooks are good for a quick hook up but the shackle is by far stronger.

Oh by the way I love your work

[coxy47]

Nice work . Its definitely not a bad start. The only thing i dont like is the fact that you have added two extra bolts that could fail but as long as they are sufficiently strong enough its not an issue and as the alternative is a hole for a shackle i prefer this method.

I personally am against shackles and prefer a hook. Yes its easier to make a hole, to be able to withstand the same load as a hook but adding shackles adds an extra point that could fail.

[Cowboy Dave]

Yeah I hear you there Coxy but having seen a few of these hooks and a few shackles I've come to the view that the shackles are more solid. Every time I see these hooks (a few of the xrox guys have them) I find it hard to believe they're rated as high as they are.

Anyway as soon as someone starts making some of these professionally I'll be waiting in line.

[ag9111]

Yeah I hear you there Coxy but having seen a few of these hooks and a few shackles I've come to the view that the shackles are more solid. Every time I see these hooks (a few of the xrox guys have them) I find it hard to believe they're rated as high as they are.

Anyway as soon as someone starts making some of these professionally I'll be waiting in line.

Your always first in line for everything Dave

[Cowboy Dave]

It's a habit I'm trying to break

I've nearly got everything setup as I want it but it's almost inevitable around this joint that new and enticing stuff will come along just as I start to feel good about it all.

[har05l]

Just a note on those recovery hooks, when I was at the camping show on the w-end i visited both the TJM and ARB stands to get a couple of the hooks for my father in-law.

They both said they don't have them and won't sell them as they're not rated . I used to use these many years ago and never had any problems but I guess the way law suits are created these days it's little wonder they'd prefer to not sell them anymore.

Anyway as soon as someone starts making some of these professionally I'll be waiting in line.

[Homer]

Just a note on those recovery hooks, when I was at the camping show on the w-end i visited both the TJM and ARB stands to get a couple of the hooks for my father in-law.

They both said they don't have them and won't sell them as they're not rated . I used to use these many years ago and never had any problems but I guess the way law suits are created these days it's little wonder they'd prefer to not sell them anymore.

Anyway as soon as someone starts making some of these professionally I'll be waiting in line.

I have them as the Xrox is very well suited for a quick fitup, but I hear what you are saying.

I bought mine from O/L and chucked them on. Cheap as - about $15-$20 for the pair or something from memory. I thought they were the same as others I'd seen (they look identical and have the stamp in them etc) and were painted but mine weren't.

It rained the night I put them on and they were rusty by the morning I have since done beach work etc and it has gotten marginally worse but the surface rust was bad in one night.

I have recovered off them on the weekend using a bridal/equalizing strap with no issues though and each one is most deffinitely much stronger than the factory hook in construction/design. Component material notwithstanding as I don't know how to tell exactly what they are made of.

Here's what they look like now - and they were very similar after 24hrs on the vehicle maybe I should also think about some maintenance and paint occasionally too

[chopper]

We'll just have to keep waiting to see what happens with these extreme limits ones. (has anyone internally rustproofed, or even cleaned, their's?)

However, interesting development of late with aftermarket recovery points has been to make a longer slot to enable the 'bow' part of the shackle to be in the point rather than the pin. I'm still not comfortable with this but will obviously need to keep looking at the reasons why.

[snowman]

firstly i encourage your motivation so PLEASE take my layman's OPINION in the right way.

In my opinion the hooks are way to exposed to rock steps and impact and if not broken off, they could weaken and break during a recovery from prior weakening.

What about keeping the plate relatively square to pick up the four chasis bolts and weld a horizontal steel plate section between the upper and lower bolt holes that runs out away from the chassis connected the full length of that plate. That horizontal plate could then either accommodate a hook mount or the alternative slot for the shackle. I am more a fan of the shackle as i have seen the snatch straps partially come off on multiple pull snatchings but i agree the hook is far easier.

Not sure about the clearance in front of the photo (to the left) especially for uphill recoveries but you definitely need to get this assembly up above the line of bashplate and bar beyond IMO.

If the mount is made and bolted properly (and the shackle fitted properly) then the snatch fail or winch stall should be far earlier than the rating of this. Problem is it is still unrated so it would be a 'user beware' type arrangement unless you were willing to get it tested which would be big dollars.

[Sky Miner]

Understood snowman
Rock climbing for me is nonexistence' mostly 90% mud, but i can see your point of a low hanging recovery point
will get jamed/smashed up on the rocks.

Your point about welding a plate in between the two bolts 'may' make the recovery point a little to high and may interfere with the bullbar.
.
I still dont trust a weld no matter how good they claim it to be (seen many fail in heavy industry) but in saying that i would without hesitation gladly drop this idear and buy one off the shelf cuz i know it would have been engineered... if i can find one ?

And yes you are 100% correct "USER BEWEAR" nothing is a 100% safe.

Would i trust it.....yes 'FOR NOW' i tested it today' long story short....i bogged my car and snatched it out with a 45t excavator (side on slew) i gave it a fair old tug (bogged 3 times) cuz i wanted it to break' i could see the hook flexing under the strain... but it didnt break' so for now it stays on' i dont encourage this method as it was only me doing the testing on my own car and quite happy to wear the damage...but none accrued....whew!!
Nor would i encourage anyone else put what i have done on their vehicle as well.

The jury (if i can say that) is still out on this one.....im still toying with the idear.
Cheers

[ag9111]

I cant see the heads but please tell me they are high tensile.

[fridgie]

We'll just have to keep waiting to see what happens with these extreme limits ones. (has anyone internally rustproofed, or even cleaned, their's?)

However, interesting development of late with aftermarket recovery points has been to make a longer slot to enable the 'bow' part of the shackle to be in the point rather than the pin. I'm still not comfortable with this but will obviously need to keep looking at the reasons why.

I wonder if they look at it as the pin is the weakest link?

It would make sense if that was the case as with pin through hole the shackle becomes projectile, where as if the bow is through the hole and pin breaks, the biggest portion is still contained minimising the possible projectile

[coxy47]

We'll just have to keep waiting to see what happens with these extreme limits ones. (has anyone internally rustproofed, or even cleaned, their's?)

However, interesting development of late with aftermarket recovery points has been to make a longer slot to enable the 'bow' part of the shackle to be in the point rather than the pin. I'm still not comfortable with this but will obviously need to keep looking at the reasons why.

I wonder if they look at it as the pin is the weakest link?

It would make sense if that was the case as with pin through hole the shackle becomes projectile, where as if the bow is through the hole and pin breaks, the biggest portion is still contained minimising the possible projectile

Its an interesting point and probably the reason. Unfortunately i can think of no other reason to do it as the pin is less likely to fail because a pin through a hitch acts as a bearing load which must fail by shear (assuming the tolerances and clearances are reasonable) whereas the bow being curved creates two point loads (unless the inside of the hitch is matched the shaoe of the bow shackle) which can cause extreme local stresses causing yielding which will ultimately lead to the shackle failing.

[NowForThe5th]

In marine applications it has been a fairly common thing for as long as I can remember to put the bow through the anchor and pin through chain. Never understood why this was opposite in four wheel driving.

A bow shackle will deform quite a lot before failing and the size we commonly use can take up to 18 tonnes in a straight line pull (not the rating, of course). Those bolt-on hooks won't take anywhere near that and there have been quite a few that have bent/failed.

I'm using the standard hook at the front but, for my money, I'd much rather have a plate with hole.

[killa]

In marine applications it has been a fairly common thing for as long as I can remember to put the bow through the anchor and pin through chain. Never understood why this was opposite in four wheel driving.

That would be simply because they don't like to use the correct connectors in the marine industry due to rusting out of the pin retainers in Hammerloks. When this is left out of a chain assembly you have no hope of getting the Bow of a shackle through the chain link so have to turn it around and use the pin.

[Sky Miner]

I cant see the heads but please tell me they are high tensile.

Not HT unfortunately they are only the bolts supplied buy TJM who installed the bar
Agree this will/should be changed once i come up with a much...better design.

Sent from my Mobil from work
Cuz i get paid for it