Which rear bar?

Bull bars, sliders, wheel carriers etc!

Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Fri May 23, 2014 12:33 pm

StiddyGLX-R wrote:Put the MCC rear bar on last week. No compliance plates or tow rating or anything.
Ugly, heavy, but seems to be well made and strong. Don't know how long I will have it. Prob sell it for something better when/if it hits the market or chop this one up and modify it.


I reckon they look pretty good. How did you manage to get one with no rating or compliance plates? I would have thought it was probably illegal to sell with those missing? At least a breach of the ADRs and they're usually picked up in the regulations somewhere.

Which reminds me I need a new sticker for my ARB bar... :roll:
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby lgil86 on Fri May 23, 2014 2:50 pm

Think it's an MCC thing Dave, my front bar came with a random array of fitting hardware...
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby slickncghia on Fri May 23, 2014 3:10 pm

My mcc bar has a compliance plate
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby StiddyGLX-R on Fri May 23, 2014 6:41 pm

Cowboy Dave wrote:
StiddyGLX-R wrote:Put the MCC rear bar on last week. No compliance plates or tow rating or anything.
Ugly, heavy, but seems to be well made and strong. Don't know how long I will have it. Prob sell it for something better when/if it hits the market or chop this one up and modify it.


I reckon they look pretty good. How did you manage to get one with no rating or compliance plates? I would have thought it was probably illegal to sell with those missing? At least a breach of the ADRs and they're usually picked up in the regulations somewhere.

Which reminds me I need a new sticker for my ARB bar... :roll:


Nah mate, nothing. Not even an MCC sticker on it. Just a plain black bar in mcc tape wrapping..
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Fri May 23, 2014 8:10 pm

Did you buy it in a back alley or something? Doesn't inspire much on QA if they leave off labels that are a legal requirement.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby StiddyGLX-R on Sat May 24, 2014 10:08 am

Bought it from MCCs Sydney distributor - fast fit bullbars.

It was still wrapped up in mcc tape so even fast fit didn't open it.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby motoz on Sat May 24, 2014 11:00 am

StiddyGLX-R wrote:Bought it from MCCs Sydney distributor - fast fit bullbars.

It was still wrapped up in mcc tape so even fast fit didn't open it.


Id be hitting them up for a replacement decal.
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Which rear bar?

Postby MN GLXR on Sat May 24, 2014 11:19 am

Ok a few pics and measurements after the TJM install....

Old bar height -Click to view larger picture

TJM bar height - Click to view larger picture

Extra length - Click to view larger picture

Mounting - Click to view larger picture

No lift and 265/65/17 tyres.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby variflex on Sat May 24, 2014 11:36 am

Wow, that's a lot of holes in the chassis rail
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Amaroo on Sat May 24, 2014 11:59 am

variflex wrote:Wow, that's a lot of holes in the chassis rail



It utilises holes already there in the chassis, at least it shouldn't come off ;)
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Pearcie45 on Sat May 31, 2014 8:51 am

Just rang around to try get my hands on a TJM bar and it seems they are on backorder. Though they cant tell me until monday how far on backorder.Pretty popular sell at the moment i guess. $668 supplied.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby alexharris on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:43 am

TJM still on sale until the end of this month. I think I'll be getting one as the GL-R genuine is rubbish. Out of interest my clearance is 315mm - slightly less than shown in the photo a couple of posts up. I worked my departure angle out to be 14.9 degrees.

Personally I think for a 4wd that is marketed as such, this really isn't fit for purpose. As such I had a long correspondence with Mitsubishi that I've pasted below (tried to condense it as best I can). You may infer from this that I have too much time on my hands and like writing letters. I got mildly confused with the Australian Design Rules but have come to the conclusion that even if the Triton meets all required rules, that is not necessarily an endorsement that it is all ok.

I'm interested in you opinions regarding if there is any point trying to take this to the ACCC or equivalent on the grounds that the towbar is not fit for purpose. I am also happy for you to poke fun at me if you think I'm an idiot.

And I love this forum even if I don't post that much. Wish I'd come here before buying the car.
Thanks,
Alex


Re: Mitsubishi Genuine Towbar on MN Triton
In 2011 my wife an I bought our Triton GLR from Melville Mitsubishi as well as some genuine accessories. Unfortunately since this time we have had significat issues with the towbar. The MN Triton has served us very well overall but is a particularly long car. With the rear step that came with it, the towbar had to be redesigned to come out underneath it. As such it sits particularly low. When you couple this with the length of the car, the trailer hitch bottoms out on slopes and bumps that it simply should not have any issues with. This causes damage to the towbar and potentially to the car.

To make matter worse, the trailer hitch and grub screw are mounted on the underside of the towbar. The trailer hitch is particularly vulnerable, given it is held on by 2 small screws. I have had to replace it once already. Further, on a recent drive we had to do a u-turn on a small slope. When reversing back onto the road the towbar bottomed out, damaging the trailer hitch again and snapping the grub screw off. Our friends were with us at the time and performed the same u-turn in their car. They were extremely surprised that any car would have issues making this turn. We have not being doing any offroad 4wd trips –and all our issues have been in normal driving environments.

When I spoke to Brett (surname not supplied) at the service department of Melville Mitsubishi on 23/4/14, he said he had never heard of any issues with this towbar. This is simply ridiculous – if you look at any of the Triton owners website it is the single most despised feature of an otherwise loved car. Many owners have simply switched towbars but I don’t feel I should have to buy another towbar.

We had the genuine towbar fitted as we were told it was the best option. According to your website, “Mitsubishi genuine parts and accessories ensure a perfect fit and optimal performance for your vehicle. Mitsubishi Genuine Service using Mitsubishi Genuine Parts is the best way to protect your investment” and “Mitsubishi genuine parts and accessories are designed, engineered and manufactured to ensure a perfect fit and optimal performance, first time, every time.” This simply has turned out to be not true. The design to compensate for the rear step is flawed, leaving the towbar far to low, causing excessive bottoming out when it should not be expected. I would note that on the cheaper GLX model, without the rear step, the towbar sits up higher.

I understand consumers are entitled to expect products they buy to be fit for the purpose for which it is acquired. As you can see from the problems I have described, this is not the case. I have had the towbar checked by the local Mitsubishi dealer here in Launceston and they confirm it has been installed properly and has not moved.

To resolve the problem, I can see 2 solutions. Either a full refund of the cost of the towbar, following which I will sort out a replacement. or, provide me and have fitted a GLX towbar that sits up higher. I know this is not compatible with the rear step.

I look forward to your reply and a resolution to my problem.


5/5/14
Receipt of your correspondence dated the 30th of April 2014 is acknowledged.

Naturally, we regret to read of your dissatisfaction with the genuine towbar fitted to your vehicle and your comments have been noted and are respected.

All vehicles and accessories introduced into the Australian market are required to be designed and certified to many safety, environmental and consumer protection regulations including Australian Design Rules (ADR) under the control of Department of Transport and Roads (DOTARS).

Both Melville Mitsubishi and Launceston Mitsubishi have confirmed that there is no manufacturing defect with the towbar or issues with the fitment and therefore, Mitsubishi Motors Australia Limited (MMAL) will not be providing a refund.

Please be advised that MMAL continually improves and updates it product range to maintain its position at the forefront of technology and design and your comments have been forwarded to the Product Planning Department for their consideration.


13/5/14
Thank you for your email. I certainly do not dispute that the towbar has not been designed to the correct standard, nor that it has been installed correctly. My concern is that it is not fit for its intended purpose, for the reasons I outlined previously.
Please respond to my particular concerns about the extremely low nature of the bar, compounded by the length of the vehicle, and in particular housing the wiring harness and grub screw underneathm where they are most likely to be damaged.
Kind Regards,



6/6/14
Receipt of your correspondence dated the 2nd of June 2014 is acknowledged.

The towbar fitted to this vehicle was designed according to the rear step position and could not be raised without removing the rear steps.

There has been some customer feedback regarding the position of the trailer harness to which Mitsubishi Motors Austrlaia Limited (MMAL) introduced a bracket and trailer harness kit which can be purchased to raise the height of the trailer harness.

As the towbar is designed to correct specifications and comply with Australian Design Rules (ADR) and is fit for purpose, MMAL will not provide a refund, nor replace the towbar.


16/6/14
I believe that the Triton comes under the category of OFF-ROAD PASSENGER VEHICLE (MC) in regards to the ADR. One of the features of the ADR for Off-road vehicles is that the departure angle must be "not less than 20 degrees". Without a towbar in place I understand that the departure angle is 21 degrees. When I measured my Triton, using the base of the rear wheels and the lowest point of the towbar, the departure angle was 14.9 degrees. This is clearly unacceptable.

As you say below "The towbar fitted to this vehicle was designed according to the rear step position and could not be raised without removing the rear steps." This is your design flaw and the cause of this issue. It was easily foreseen and should have been adjusted for.

Further, merely meeting minimum design rules does not render a vehicle or its accessories fit for purpose. The fact you have designed an alternative wiring harness would suggest that MMAL agrees with me.

I still feel I am warranted a refund. I will await your reply.


17/6/14
Your correspondence below is acknowledged. Nemyra is currently on leave and therefore, I will respond on her behalf.

In regards to your enquiry, we wish to inform you that your Triton does not fall under category MC, but rather under the category of Light Goods Vehicle (NA).

Under the Australian Design Rule – Definitions and Vehicle Categories 2005, Compilation: 5, your vehicle falls under the following:
4.5.5. LIGHT GOODS VEHICLE (NA) - A goods vehicle (commercial vehicle) with a ‗Gross Vehicle Mass‗ not exceeding 3.5 tonne
Certification Approval is NA category, see DOTARS RVCS web site below
http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/355 ... 123044.cmd

Therefore, we wish to reiterate that the Towbar on your vehicle is to correct specifications, complies with Australian Design Rules (ADR) under the control of Department of Transport and Roads (DOTARS) and is fit for it's intended purpose.

The introduction of the bracket and trailer harness kit, as mentioned by Nemyra, was based upon customer feedback and in no way implies a design flaw. As a result, MMAL stand by their initial decision and wish to inform you that we are unable to provide a refund or replacement of your Towbar.

We would like to thank you for allowing us the opportunity to review this matter and explain our position and will now consider this matter closed.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby lgil86 on Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:01 pm

ya stressed poor Nemyra out, shes off for a week on the beer! :lol:
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Lunny on Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:16 pm

I can't believe you honestly thought they would refund you the bar... :?
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Naff on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:03 pm

x 2
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Bigbirdalx on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:40 pm

After damaging it a few times did you not look at mcc/arb/tjm?
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby PhatVelvet on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:01 pm

I think the issue is that he doesn't think he should have to pay for a replacement because the genuine one he purchased should be suitable for use in the terrain the vehicle is designed for... In a perfect world the dealer would tell you about all current/potential issues with a vehicle and their genuine accessories prior to purchase, but then they would sell less accessories.
I too am unhappy with how low the genuine one sits, but I also realise that if I had researched sufficiently prior to purchase I could have avoided the issue altogether....so I see it as my own fault. That's just me, but I wouldn't bother with ACCC.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Lunny on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:09 pm

That's exactly it... Research is key when it comes to these things.. But let's face it... What car company would say it's there fault because you chose the wrong thing.. Like choosing a meat lovers pizza, eating it then deciding you wanted a Hawaiian and asking for a refund..

The bar is designed for the vehicle, it restricts what it can do but certainly doesn't restrict it that much...
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Doc on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:09 pm

Lunny wrote:I can't believe you honestly thought they would refund you the bar... :?


lgil86 wrote:ya stressed poor Nemyra out, shes off for a week on the beer! :lol:


Yeah but it gave me a smile
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Doc on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:13 pm

Lunny wrote:That's exactly it... Research is key when it comes to these things.. But let's face it... What car company would say it's there fault because you chose the wrong thing.. Like choosing a meat lovers pizza, eating it then deciding you wanted a Hawaiian and asking for a refund..

The bar is designed for the vehicle, it restricts what it can do but certainly doesn't restrict it that much...

Dunno that I'd agree entirely. Surely driving over a shopping centre speed bump, with just a couple of hundred kgs in the back, shouldn't scrape the underside of the towbar yet it does.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby variflex on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:16 pm

Gee I hope you didn't get the factory side steps fitted, if so I'd suggest hitting them up for a refund and purchasing some sliders
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby RHKTriton on Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:24 am

The bar that suits the step is bad enough on my ml, I'm surprised there isn't much more commentary on MNs getting stuck or scrapping with their barge-arse rear ends and the works hanging out low.

The step should have been designed to allow the hitch to protrude through it at a higher level, full stop.

The reply Alex got suggests that MM only regard the Triton as a ultility SUV, that'll go down well - not!
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby GLX58 on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:49 pm

Hey Alex,

I am one myself for fully sticking up for my rights. I also work in a (non-accc) regulatory job involving specific consumer rights (I have made myself a nightmare to a few who doing the wrong thing lol).

I think you are probably wasting your time on this one. I have successfully had a warranty replacement of a genuine mitsu accessory (not the tow bar) however this was because it a) was not fitted correctly b) caused damage to the vehicle c) could not be properly adjusted within 4 visits to 'work' (5th time got it...) d) I let the process go through the motions and the above gave me good reason to get a refund.

I do know that the ACCC works on a risk/impact based method. In fact they simply will not investigate many simple/basic complaints at all, particularly where the financial loss is minimal and number of consumers affected is low. They get 10's of 000's of complaints a year so can't do them all (or even most of them!). In these instances the best they will do is send a reminder letter to the business reminding them of the consumer law obligations.

Should it be pushed, I think the onus would be on you to prove it is 'not fit for purpose'. Mitsu would likely fight this tooth and nail also given the amount of towbar kits out there and people who want more clearance.... "Not fit for purpose" could be a funny one to prove also, i.e if say the towbar was rated to 2.5t and had snapped off/bent when towing a 2.4t boat then you would have much better grounds.

So with respect I'd disagree with you on this one, I screwed up buying as well and have exact same towbar (don't tow/ rough offroad much though so less of an issue) and don't like it either, but in the end i mark it down to a poor purchasing decision. While mitsu should certainly be designing a better peice of kit and have screwed up for their customers in this sense it's pretty arguable In my mind that many other cars are out there with towball kits that would sit much lower? If towing something with a high towball down weight it's arguable you shouldn't be expecting great clearance due to the resultant weight and increased total length of the car/trailer, there's many instances where any car is going to bottom out with a heavy trailer out back.

If you do wish to pursue it Id say ask yourself if you made it clear to the salesman you would be towing. If so did you also make it clear clearance was as issue. If the above is yes to both then you likely have grounds to proceed further down the 'get your way' path. If only the first item above, I would politely take it up with the area manager and go from there, they may be willing to do 'something', but I personally wouldn't expect a full refund.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby Cowboy Dave on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:07 pm

I would have thought he made it clear that he would be towing when he bought a tow bar?

And then how would he have known clearance was an issue given the stock clearance of the vehicle looks okay until they stick the bar on it?

But having said that, he's pushing shit up hill and MMAL are unlikely to ever roll over at the current rate. I'd have started with the dealer anyway since it's the dealer that sold it to you, fitted it, would be taken to know what you wanted to the extent you told them and who failed to tell you it would suck. At least the dealer would have some chance of being able to re-use the bar on another vehicle if they swapped it for the glx bar instead.

Then again I didn't take mine back. I just gave it away to someone else and bought a used ARB bar instead. Life is too short to go around picking fights everywhere. I have enough grief to deal with without creating more.
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Re: Which rear bar?

Postby emjayar on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:08 pm

Cowboy Dave wrote: Life is too short to go around picking fights everywhere. I have enough grief to deal with without creating more.


Nailed it.
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