Closing the EGR Valve *check first post for links*

Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby harley on Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:25 pm

Hi all,
These EGR block is done on 2,5 or 3,2 liter Triton DID?

thanks
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby Itchyfeet8 on Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:56 am

Hi

I'm a newbie to this sort of thing, but isn't it better to add a catch-can to the EGR line? This should trap any crap that would clog up things further down, but would still recycle the gases. I've seen them mentioned on another forum.

Paul
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby chong75 on Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:32 pm

hi, i'm a newbie in this forum, and i 'm from malaysia. hope to learn more staff from you all.
firstly, after reading this topic, i took about an hour to block the EGR. have been driven my 2.5auto for a day, first thing i realise is the black smoke has reduced( i hardly see any). after i tune my vector plug play piggyback(germany) to the max, my truck blows lot of smoke every time i accerarate . i am very surprise that by blocking the EGR can eliminate the smoke and also can feel the torque increase. many thanks for the information mate. :)
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby erne on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:03 am

Yes Chong 75 blocking the Egr reduce by far the black smoke below 2500RPM . What brand of piggyback do yoo have?

For Itchyfeet8 : A catch can is a good idea , in fact is exactly what I ve done and I clean the can every service.

For Harley: The egr block is done on both models 2.5 and 3.2
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby chong75 on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:05 pm

i am using a germany piggy name VECTOR. it has seven setting to suit individual need. but after reading a few topic in this forum , i have made up my mind to use the DMS from monster . because its true that thai understand the commonrail more than other. :)
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby chong75 on Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:11 pm

guys, I AM CONFUSED!!!! after blocked the EGR, i dont see any black smoke even hard acceleration . why did all the smoke go. before and after blocking the Egr, the result is totally opposite, how can this be????. is my triton fuel supply too lean or what??? :roll:
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby erne on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:25 am

Also in my car I noticed the reduction of the black smoke , and I was surprised so I did a research on the web , and I actually find out that is normal . The car will run a bit leaner in the low rpm , but considering that the valve if I remember well works only up to 2500 rpm is not a problem.So in theory your black smoke should be reduced only below 2500-3000 Rpm where the Egr valve don't supply anymore additional fumes to the combustion chamber.Thats why I believe the blocking of the Egr has a better effect when you also have a piggy or the Ecu remapped to increase a little the fuel .....!
Hope that this make a bit sense to you!

Ps Remember blocking EGR increase fuel consumption a little bit!
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby harley on Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:01 pm

erne wrote:For Harley: The egr block is done on both models 2.5 and 3.2


Thanks erne... i'm really eager to try that.. but how much power can we get by closing the egr?
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby boostedbmw on Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:59 pm

Well i now have blocked both sides of the piping to the egr. I still get the check light coming on but i dont know if its from that or the DP chip or the extra boost.
It's easier to get forgivness than permission.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby sierra on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:13 pm

Snowman,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

In modern diesel engines, the EGR gas is cooled through a heat exchanger to allow the introduction of a greater mass of recirculated gas. Unlike SI engines, diesels are not limited by the need for a contiguous flamefront; furthermore, since diesels always operate with excess air, they benefit from EGR rates as high as 50% (at idle, where there is otherwise a very large amount of excess air) in controlling NOx emissions.

Since diesel engines are unthrottled, EGR does not lower throttling losses in the way that it does for SI engines (see above). However, exhaust gas (largely carbon dioxide and water vapor) has a higher specific heat than air, and so it still serves to lower peak combustion temperatures; this aids the diesel engine's efficiency by reduced heat rejection and dissociation. There are trade offs however. Adding EGR to a diesel reduces the specific heat ratio of the combustion gases in the power stroke. This reduces the amount of power that can be extracted by the piston. EGR also tends to reduce the amount of fuel burned in the power stroke. This is evident by the increase in particulate emissions that corresponds to an increase in EGR. Particulate matter (mainly carbon) that is not burned in the power stroke is wasted energy. Stricter regulations on particulate matter(PM) call for further emission controls to be introduced to compensate for the PM emissions introduced by EGR. The most common is particulate filters in the exhaust system that result in reduced fuel efficiency[citation needed]. Since EGR increases the amount of PM that must be dealt with and reduces the exhaust gas temperatures and available oxygen these filters need to function properly to burn off soot, automakers have had to consider injecting fuel and air directly into the exhaust system to keep these filters from plugging up.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby sierra on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:29 pm

This article is very negative.

http://www.oilanalysis.com/article_deta ... icleid=349

This is the first part.

New engine designs use EGR to control NOx emissions by recirculating exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber to be burned a second time, thereby reducing emissions associated with health risks. The amount of exhaust gas introduced into the combustion chamber will displace oxygen, creating cooler combustion. In doing this, many of the exhaust contaminants end up in the engine lubricating oil.

Diesel engine oils are now exposed to a higher level of contamination that can degrade the oil and damage engine parts. There is concern that exhaust gas recirculation can have a detrimental effect on engine durability and its effects on the oil. Oils exposed to the EGR environment show an increase in soot content, acid number (AN) and viscosity, while the engine and oil are both exposed to corrosive/acidic gases and particle buildup.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby boostedbmw on Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:24 am

I only just commented the other day when doing my 10k service on how BLACK the oil was. It was disgusting considering it had only been in there for 5k
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby snowman on Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:06 am

very nice work sierra.

well i am pretty convinced that the EGR process is ahead of the engine and oil technology......

The article indicates that engine manufacturers are some way off solving this issue and proposals could include higher wearing metals, bypass filtering etc.

One absolute that i have taken from this is to complete 3 oil changes per 15,000 (i.e. every 5k) or at least every 7.5k which is what i would normally do.

However, wikipedia had this last few lines,

'In most modern engines, disabling the EGR system will cause the computer to display a check engine light. In almost all cases, a disabled EGR system will cause the car to fail an emissions test, and may cause the EGR passages in the cylinder head and intake manifold to become blocked with carbon deposits, necessitating extensive engine disassembly for cleaning.'

i guess a scanguage can be purchased to determine the check engine light type. nothing worse than thinking you have a blocked EGR light but it is for something worse! Does anyone know enough about the internals of the head etc to know if the blocking of the EGR is a long term problem to this part of the motor. it seems that in any case you clag up the inlet port which seems ridiculous or upstream of the egr pipe if you block it.

Maybe Monster is onto something by venting it as the gases vent to atmosphere (they would via the exhaust otherwise) and it probably doesn't effect the 'check engine light' as there is still flow. i think in any case i might get an EGT sensor fitted (do scanguages monitor exhaust gas temps if you have a sensor?) to make sure it is all kept in parameters.

can anyone enlighten me more on this 'catch can' setup?

man this thread is a bit heavy but hopefully we can find a good result.
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby snowman on Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:24 am

ok seems the catch can is still a closed circuit using some additional tubing to a closed container. so i assume it still allows the gasses to transfer along the line (which probably wont help carbon buildup?) but prevents the wet sludge from getting into your inlet manifold. as it can still be made as a closed system it alleviates the worry i have of allowing water into the motor in creek crossings etc.

i found this on another forum and although for a mazda it has some good pics,

http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?s ... h%20can%5C

So who would be interested in making an EGR block off kit? :D

maybe starting with a nicely machined flange.......
This car is like a bad drug habit. It is taking all my money and time, my family are concerned, but new mods just feel sooooooo good.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby new44 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:47 pm

Just looked over those mazda threds. I like his catch can ideas. Looks to me like this could prevent alot of the crap being fed into our inlets. Also keeping with emission requirements with no vent to atmosphere. If I get the time I think this method of `crud` prevention will find it`s way onto my ute. ;)
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby sierra on Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:56 am

This EGR is just like the first mods they brought out to clean up emissions years ago, they drained power, increased fuel consumption and were so crude they took more than they gave. When you look at all the negatives you have to wonder at the wisdom, especially reducing the engine life?
If the valve shuts at 2,500rpm how could that command be altered to 1,000rpm or the valve disabled in the closed position?
The best gasket mentioned, IMO, was the one where you split the factory gasket in 2 and slip a SS blank in between. It wont be seen or deteriorate.
Does it have any negatives apart from low rpm emissions and will it leave any messages on the computer to dob us in?
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby sierra on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:19 am

A way of fooling the system, if it does throw up any alerts, might be to drill a small hole in the blank so that when the EGR valve opens there is pressure in the pipe that feeds it but virtually no flow after that?
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby chong75 on Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:03 am

1 week after blocking EGR, nothing happen to the checklight, fuel consumption?????? reduced a bit...... i was expecting to increase, WHY?? in the past week, i feel that the power or torque increased, not too much but the low end torque definately improved. guys, i felt that the engine took a little bit longer time to warm up in the morning, do you?
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby ML-VR08 on Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:59 am

My check light came on afternoon after the install, (while washing the car i moved it, and check light came on) Can you guys show me a pic where you have blocked your egr off.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby erne on Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:21 pm

Just go at the beginning of this tread there is a picture with an arrow showing where to put the blank as sierra said to split the gasket in to two and put the blank in between , thats all nothing more is required and your check light will never come on!I did already 40000 km , check engine light was never on!
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby ML-VR08 on Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:24 pm

I have mine where monster has shown, and also the same as boosted, i have blocked off both sides.
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby RHKTriton on Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:16 pm

Well EGR - Engineer's Grizzly Ration???

The analogy with humans would be to take up to 20% of your crap each day and throw it back on your dinner plate! Would an engine designer, legislator or greenie do that?

I blanked off my EGR at the exhaust flange by splitting gasket and inserting a copper foil (about 2weeks driving now) for an initial test and haven't noticed any detriment. Looking at the Mazda ref. re PCV valve gases and capture can looks like a good option. Essentially any engine should only ever have clean air and fuel entering and the only contamination to the oil should be normal wear & tear particles and condensates from gases getting past the piston rings.

For maximum efficiency, keeping sensors clean is essential and this is where the filtering of the PCV circuit could be useful. I'm going to have a play with the PCV filtering and let you guys know if I come up with something.
Don't let the b'strds get you down!!
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby nifty67 on Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:00 pm

Going to do mine tomorrow and will give a good test next week as I am head of to Cobar for work.

Nifty
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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby nifty67 on Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:04 pm

Got up early this morning before anybody need the ute and done a couple quick mod's.

Using some 2mm stainless steel made up blanking plate to go on the exhaust manifold to block flow to EGR valve.
Then removed the inlet tube between the filter and turbo to see if there was an oil sitting the line and there was a couple of drops sitting creases at the bottom of the tube, so decide to re-route the engine breather. So I capped of breather liner on inlet tube and install a breather to the engine.
The whole job costed me $18.00 and couple of hours.
Below are the photos

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Re: Closing the Egr Valve

Postby Eelesy on Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:02 pm

makes it look like it will go faster.... :lol:

pardon my ignorance. but if oil is going between the rocker cover and air intake, wont oil now go into ur spekky new filter?
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