cooling fan

[sam]

Wasn't there a thread on here somewhere about different radiator cores
Some were single tube while others were twin tube or something to that effect

Is this the thread you mean?

Yep, that's the one.....

[subi_man]

My Tri has been running hot lately, and now that I think about it I haven't heard my fan engage for ages. It could be that my fan coupling isn't locking up properly

I first noticed it driving up a hill in top gear as I usually do and the temp rose very quickly peaking at 108degrees on the scanguage

[Quinny23]

Just my 2c worth... I'd suggest its normal and more dependant on driving style, weight, areodynamics (both the car and air flow to the radiator) and also crap in the radiator.

I gatehr it must be load to annoy so many of you... thicker radiator, better air flow, drop in speed of 5klms... Im not so sure its Mr. Bishis issue... but thats just my opinion.

[Homer]

It's loud as f**K Quinny. Just a big roaring noise box driving down the road - can't hear the V6 engine over it at all - even giving it stink the fan just gets louder and drowns out the exhaust.

Hopped out of the MK and within a week I was looking for an electric thermo fan.

Being V6 mine may be different, but the main culprit is definitely the A/C.

Especially when first starting, I think the A/C calls for the fan and the wind tunnel starts.

Turn off the A/C and it goes back to normal.

Anyone else tried turning off their Aircon to check the difference?

[NowForThe5th]

Maybe it's that Canberra is cooler (but not in the summer) but I don't seem to have the same problem. Sure when first starting the main fan is noisy - that's a function of the way it works: the oil in the viscous coupling is thick until it warms a bit and then gets thicker when it gets hot so there is less slip and it pulls more air through the radiator. The action of the viscous coupling is gradual so it doesn't change rapidly - the clicking in and out is the electric fan in front of the a/c condensor. That one is a bit different to most cars in the way it cuts in and out quite often but I don't find it all that noisy when compared to most other cars.

Having said this I'd still like to dump the viscous coupled radiator fan because it is a bit noisy but also because with electric fans I could turn off for water crossings. After the engine fan in my MK threw water up into the air intake and cost me a $5000 engine rebuild, I think that electrics would be good insurance. The other advantage of electrics is that they don't turn on when the engine is cold and so warming up is a little quicker (not much because the thermostat isn't open) and it isn't as noisy.

[sierra]

The action of the viscous coupling is gradual so it doesn't change rapidly - the clicking in and out is the electric fan in front of the a/c condensor. That one is a bit different to most cars in the way it cuts in and out quite often but I don't find it all that noisy when compared to most other cars.

ML GLX 2.5 CRD single cab - No electric fan fitted for the A/C radiator[condensor]!
No wonder it works well from cold but struggles after it's been left in the sun, especially idling in traffic.
This might be an easy fix by getting the gear from a wreckers on the rare ones with no front end damage? You would think it's just a bolt on, plug in job?
Tight arses!

[Quinny23]

It's loud as f**K Quinny. Just a big roaring noise box driving down the road

Sorry... but I couldnt help laughing at that..... in an unholy hilux manner.... even with the SR model... I cant hear the fan over my 33' muddies and wife...

Might go take the work ute for a spin and see what roar I can hear...

[Jumma]

I had a look at the thread about radiators - interesting!

So tell me again if someone can - how do I tell if my vehicle has the correct radiator in it?

As I understand it the first one from front to rear is the intercooler, the second is air con and the larger (relatively thin looking one) is the radiator...

Also - as I understand it - the thermostat has little effect on the viscous fan as they are independent and have their own sensor on the hub. The only effect they may have is letting the engine run hotter, this in turn allowing the radiator to get hotter and then the air flowing through the radiator is hotter, flowing onto the hub and causing it to lock in.

Today I travelled home from Sydney in 30 degree C temps. The fan was on a good part of the way through free flowing traffic. It comes on full when I stop at the lights and only goes off again when I have travelled for a few km at say 80km/hr or so. It did however stay off for most of the freeway trip home today, as the temp dropped below 30 degrees C. Ge I would hate to own one of these if I lived in Cairns or somewhere that is hot all year round. It would be roaring non-stop!

I have looked at threads all over the net about this and I still don't think it is normal.

So now I am starting to think that maybe it could be a radiator issue!!!

Otherwise - Has anyone had any experience with electric cooling fans on a Triton? I would certainly consider that option if the cost was reasonable and it got rid of the noise and power sapping mechanical fan issues...Maybe duel electric fans, thermostatically controlled with a larger core radiator is the go??? Wonder what the cost would be for that??

Meanwhile I am awaiting MM to call me back as they said they would.

Cheers

James

[Greedy]

So tell me again if someone can - how do I tell if my vehicle has the correct radiator in it?

I started that thread after the radiator specialist told me I had the wrong one installed. This wasn't correct information. Mitsi's only use the thin core radiators. My understanding is the aftermarket manufacturer produced a thicker core radiator as they thought the standard one was too small for a diesel.

As I understand it the first one from front to rear is the intercooler, the second is air con and the larger (relatively thin looking one) is the radiator...

The first one in the engine bay behind the front panel is the radiator. It has a black cover (part of the fan shroud) over the top of it. If you look through the gap between the side of this cover and the side tank of the radiator, you may be able to see the core. It's 16mm wide standard.

So now I am starting to think that maybe it could be a radiator issue!!!

Have you topped up the coolant at any stage? If so, did you use Mitsi coolant. Apparently, mixing coolants can cause all sorts of problems with blockages in radiators due to the precipitation of a chalky substance. A flow test at a radiator joint shouldn't cost much. It's about an hour to get in and out.

Maybe duel electric fans, thermostatically controlled with a larger core radiator is the go??? Wonder what the cost would be for that??

The radiator cost me about $400. I was tempted to go thermo fans but was talked out of it by the guy who did the radiator

Meanwhile I am awaiting MM to call me back as they said they would.

Good luck with that. The dealers here in Adelaide don't have outside lines from my experience.

[subi_man]

Well I think I solved my particular fan/cooling issue. Removed the radiator today and found it at least 40% blocked with crap, despite having a mesh screen in front since the car was new.

Cleaned both the radiator and the a/c and found an immediate improvement in airflow - can hear the fan again so I'm expecting when the temps heat up that I'll have no more overheating issues. For anyone that is having trouble it could be worth checking your radiator core is not blocked as it's incredibly fine (not to mention the thinnest core I have ever seen) and can easily lose efficiency when only partly blocked

Cheers

[Greedy]

can easily lose efficiency when only partly blocked

Found that out the hard way

[KevO78]

Hey Jumma your not the only one with this problem, mine is on% of the time when i'm on the highway and it's over 30deg especially whilst towing a campervan (which i'd expect bu not nearly constant). i usually do long highway runs at 115km/h with the coolant temp at 84~87deg (scangauge). I've asked the dealers before and they assured me perfectly normal, but i doubt it. Keep us posted with how ya get on.

KevO

[Jumma]

G'day Kev

Mate, I am now waiting from a call from the dealer AGAIN! I spoke to MM last week and they tell me that the dealer is telling them everything is normal. I said it sounds a bit like passing the buck if you ask me. They denied this obviously.......

You know I wouldn't mind the fan coming on if the temperature is high and I am towing up a hill and the car is really working but not every time sfter I stop at the lights when it is only 25 degree C or so... that is ridiculous.

Also - As I noted in an earlier post. I did take the dealer over to one of his 09 new stock floor models and I started it up. It was a DiD of course, only difference is it was auto (mine is 5sp manual). Anyhow - I started it and sat there for at least 10 minutes with my foot on the peddle keeping the revs up around 3000-3500 rpm - For TEN minutes. The fan came on for about 5 seconds when it first started and then I never heard it again... and guess what? The ambient temperature was over 30 degree C, it was a stinker of a day and this car was dark grey in colour and had been sitting in the sun all day. NO FAN noise, at all and the temp guage stayed around the mid range. Now you would think this a much worse condition than sitting on the freeway at 100 km/hr or so i.e. with lots of air passing through the radiator helping it to cool down... They can't explain this one.... I wonder why?

Kev - if you get the chance you should go and check out an 09 floor model yourself and see what happens when you give it a good work over - I bet the fan doesnt come on! Make sure you do it on a HOT day... and then ask them if you are wrong...

BTW - I have checked my radiator, I have also flushed all the fins and made sure all is clear and clean - so NO blockages!

I think there is a design fault in the Triton Diesel - or at least the 08 model!!

CHeers

James

[Jumma]

Well I think I solved my particular fan/cooling issue. Removed the radiator today and found it at least 40% blocked with crap, despite having a mesh screen in front since the car was new.

Cleaned both the radiator and the a/c and found an immediate improvement in airflow - can hear the fan again so I'm expecting when the temps heat up that I'll have no more overheating issues. For anyone that is having trouble it could be worth checking your radiator core is not blocked as it's incredibly fine (not to mention the thinnest core I have ever seen) and can easily lose efficiency when only partly blocked

Cheers

Subi - was the radiator hard to remove for cleaning? DId you have to pull it right out and disconnect the inlet/outlet etc???

I have sprayed the hose down through the radiator on every angle possible... I got some dirt out of it but there doesnt seem to be any more coming out. Do you really need to pull it right out to clean it properly or can you wash water through it???

If it was excessively dirty - I would imagine the MM guys would have noticed it as being a potential cause of the problem and would have logically looked for this cause. They did bleed air from out of the cooling system and I think (not sure) I think that it improved a little after that....

They (MM dealer) have:

- Replaced fan blades twice
- Replaced viscous hub once
- Bled air from system

So far..... Still I get fan coming on almost every time I stop at the lights, even in low twenties degree C!!!!! and it doesn't turn off again until I have travelled a couple of km from the lights.. sound like a semi every time I leave the lights..

Cheers

James

[subi_man]

G'day James,

I had previously tried cleaning the radiator without removing it but it didn't seem to make much difference. So this time I drained the coolan, completely removed the radiator and hosed the fins clean. I think this is the only way to properly clean it if it's overly dirty. It's quite easy to do. I was very surprised at how blocked it was and it has definitely made a difference.

However while it was blocked, I could NOT hear my fan drawing air (when first started and when the temp is high) which made me think there was something wrong with the viscous clutch. Since cleaning the radiator, and doing nothing else, I can clearly hear the fan cutting in and out now - since you are saying that you can hear your fan running perhaps your problem isn't a blocked radiator

Hope that helps?

[Jumma]

Yes - my fan is definitely coming on and VERY noisy. How often does your fan engage? and at what temperatures?

I can understand how your fan would not be working previously as they rely on the air that flows through the radiator to activate the heat sensor on the viscous hub and engage/disengage the mechanical fan. I don't know if this is the best design. I would have thought a system that was controlled by the actual engine temperature itself would be much more effective. In other words have the mechanical fan/clutch controlled by an engine coolant temperature sensor. This way it would be more direct and not rely so much on the ambient temperatures to control it....

I am not sure but I think electric fans with thermostat control sound like a possible better option than the mechanical fan, especially if it can produce the volume and be quieter. Less mechanical resistance for the motor also....

What do all these fancy little european CD, TDI etc cars do? Surely they don't sound like a tornado coming up the road every time it's warm enough to go to the beach??? Volkswaken, peugot, ford, etc etc .. they all have injected turbo diesels these days...??

Cheers

James

[sierra]

Has anyone with a fan that keeps cutting in got uncluttered air intakes?
Mine only has the nudge bar which leaves the intakes pretty clear. It also runs at 90c all the time[2.5]
I hear the fan for 100m then I never hear it again unless I'm using the A/C and it might not come on much then because I'm only really aware of the pump running.

[subi_man]

Yes - my fan is definitely coming on and VERY noisy. How often does your fan engage? and at what temperatures?

James, my fan seems to behave like this;

- When the car is first started from cold or below operating temp, I can hear the fan drawing air for perhaps 30seconds, and then it drops off.
- While driving the fan kicks in around 89-91 degrees I think (will double-check with Scanguage)
- If I pull up and let the motor idle with the car at normal operating temp and the air-con running, i can hear the fan drawing air as the a/c compressor cycles on/off and the motor idles up/own. When I start moving again the fan drops off after 20-30 second of driving.

Outside temp was about 34degrees today.

That's about it I think!

Cheers

[sierra]

James, my fan seems to behave like this;

But don't you have 2 fans on yours, the thermal fan they all have and an electric one that comes on as the A/C cycles on and off?

The GLX and GL don't have the seperate A/C fan as I understand it, mine certainly doesn't, GLX.

[Jumma]

Mine does this whether the aircon is on or off.

I have the VR, which is the next model down from the GLX-R DiD. It doesn't come with bluetooth, hard tonneau cover, nudge bar etc. It is not too different to the GLX-R.

Mine does have the nudge bar on it (genuine Mitsubishi) and it does not block the air flow to the radiator. I am not sure if there is a seperate air/con fan. I imagine there is as I am sure that I hear one kick in when I stop at the lights or I am stationary with the aircon running. It is only a quiet fan though and is preceeded by a small audible "click" and change in revs as the fan starts up and puts load on the engine. But this fan makes very little noise and does not bother me at all....

It is the mechanical thermo fan that is the issue and very noisy.

Subi - yes, my fan comes on in the morning and in 18-20 degrees C will stay on for up to 3 km away from home, it then phases out and the car is nice and quiet to drive again.....

I am not sure what engine temp my thermo fan kicks in at, but I am sure the the temp guage reads just over half way when it does (except for at cold start). BTW -the cold start fan noise is apparently because the fluid in the viscous clutch is still cold and at a higher viscosity until it warms up a bit. After it warms then the fluid flows more freely and the hub is allowed to free spool. It only engages 100% (when the noise is really an issue) when the hub temp sensor tells it to as far as I understand. Not sure on the internal worksings but there must be a temp driven valve in the viscous hub or something.

Subi - my fan would pretty much be on constantly driving on freeway or around town if it were 34 degrees C outside!!!

Yes - there should be seperate aircon fan and then a mechanical thermo fan (with viscous hub). THe aircon fan should be electric and obvioulsy kick in and out while the aircon is operating. It should be pretty quiet compared to the mechanical fan though. The mech one is like a jumbo jet taking off and I recon it really does have a negative impact on engine power.

It is interesting to find out what the situation of other Triton owners is here....

Cheers

James

[sierra]

Mine does have the nudge bar on it (genuine Mitsubishi) and it does not block the air flow to the radiator. I am not sure if there is a seperate air/con fan. I imagine there is as I am sure that I hear one kick in when I stop at the lights or I am stationary with the aircon running. It is only a quiet fan though and is preceeded by a small audible "click" and change in revs as the fan starts up and puts load on the engine. But this fan makes very little noise and does not bother me at all....
It is the mechanical thermo fan that is the issue and very noisy.

My nudge is genuine Mits.
I'm sure you have a seperate A/C fan but the click and engine revs increasing are from the compressor cutting in and consuming a kw or 2 at idle, much more than the fan, 700rpm up to 900rpm

Sounds like your viscous hub is faulty?

[subi_man]

James, my fan seems to behave like this;

But don't you have 2 fans on yours, the thermal fan they all have and an electric one that comes on as the A/C cycles on and off?

The GLX and GL don't have the seperate A/C fan as I understand it, mine certainly doesn't, GLX.

2007 ML GLX-R diesel has only one belt-driven fan with the viscous clutch, there is no electric fan whatsoever! Pretty sure Jummas would be the same and, like you say, the click when the engine idles up is definitely the a/c compressor cutting in

[Jumma]

I stand corrected guys - My boo boo!

Yes - there is only one fan (the mechanical fan) and the noise IS the air comp for the air con kicking in.

I have NO electric fan at all as you say subi....

Sierra - MM has already replaced the hub and the blades only recently.


So if the cooling fan is the same as the air con fan, then how does the ac unit tell the mech fan that it needs to kick in?? is it temp based on the hub still?? ie. ambient temperature driven?

Actually - does the hub have any electronic s,arts at all? OR is it purely 100% mechanical??

There are some interesting facts about viscous hub fans and the issues of cold starting and patents for future solutions to the cold start issue if you are interested - http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20080257677

Cheers

James

[sierra]

2007 ML GLX-R diesel has only one belt-driven fan with the viscous clutch, there is no electric fan whatsoever! Pretty sure Jummas would be the same and, like you say, the click when the engine idles up is definitely the a/c compressor cutting in

That's very interesting. So the electric fan mentioned somewhere? recently for the A/C radiator on the GLX-R is a later update. That begs the question, how effective is it and is it a simple bolt on plug in modification?

[Jumma]

Sierra - neither the 2007 or 2008 Triton seem to have electric.. I am unsure about the 2009 model though.... however this would make sense and reduce the frequency of the mech fan when the air con is on...

James