ChipIt & Steinbauer Discussion

[Kool]

Much knowledge can be gained if you follow a few good sayings

It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. ~Attributed to Harry S. Truman

A single conversation with a wise man is better than ten years of study. ~Chinese Proverb

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. ~Thomas Szasz

Informed factual discussion is all good

I for one have chip it on on MN have done 10,000 km not one problem but have a open mind to all othewr options
Cheers
Kool

[Homer]

^^^best post on the entire thread here BG...except for this one:

Daryn... move it to a new thread called ...

BUY A V6 you big handbag carrying girls

How are your performance mods coming along there Homer???? Happy still with being beaten by 4cyl oilers are ya????

haven't been beaten by one yet...but less willing to try now 'cause if any of these smelly smoke boxes does manage to keep up or beat me it'll be back to the stock tyres for me!

Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. ~Thomas Szasz

And that's a ripper mate.

[Steane]

Perhaps the best feature of the Chip It, even more so than the power and driveability improvements, is that it stops the limp modes that blocking the EGR creates.

That alone gives it a firm hold on the top of my Triton mods challenge board.

My previous DP Chip didn't do this.

The Steinbauer may, I don't know. If it doesn't, then in the Triton's unique case I personally wouldn't consider it for that reason alone.

[Steane]

Much knowledge can be gained if you follow a few good sayings

It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. ~Attributed to Harry S. Truman

A single conversation with a wise man is better than ten years of study. ~Chinese Proverb

I am always ready to learn although I do not always like being taught. ~Winston Churchill

Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. ~Thomas Szasz

Informed factual discussion is all good

I for one have chip it on on MN have done 10,000 km not one problem but have a open mind to all othewr options
Cheers
Kool

Excellent.

This one seems to fit as well;

“Where facts are few, experts are many.”

[ultimate]

EDIT: sorry.. and can you run the steinbauer without the throttle position thing? does it require a cut.. I assume this mean the Sprint Booster wont work either (dealbreaker for me )

You can run the Sprint Booster with the Steinbauer module. That's the set up we have in our Hilux and we love it The throttle position sensor in the Steinbauer is only there to monitor the throttle output, not modify it like the Sprint Booster does.-

I personally favour the Steinbauer unit as it has proven to be more reliable and provided noticeable performance gains in both drivability and on the Dyno. We have never used a Chip-it (and I don't have a Triton) but have tried two other well know chips before the Steinbauer. Both Chips focused on increasing the fuel pressure and both had to be removed because they were downright dangerous due to the amount of Limp modes we were getting. We basically removed all of the chips and just ran the Sprint Booster. That provided the most noticeable gains in performance and didn't affect any of the other systems. Eventually we fitted the Steinbauer module even though Ken was a bit reluctant. We were happily surprised and it's now in there permanently with no problems at all. I really enjoy running the two products side by side as the Sprint Booster unlocks the full potential of the engine delivering quicker response and better drivability. The Steinbauer is fantastic off road and really makes a difference when the vehicle is under load.

[Naff]

'Bout time you got a Chip It and Sprint Booster installed in a Triton Brendan.

And thanks gregned! Your last post is the sort of factual information I was hoping to get from Steinbauer. Not just heresay.

Like Joe, I'd be more than happy to try out a Steinbauer, but not at my expense when I have a significant gain from the ChipIt, and that is without unlocking the other potentials with that chip.

[borngeek]

Great thanks Brendan! more good info

I wouldnt mind trying the various power settings on the steinbauer... does yours have this Brendan?
do you guys move it around or find there's a 'sweet spot' like I have found with my supplied chipIT tunes.. or let me guess you just run it at max and thats it

//like you Naff I have made my choice and have not regretted it one bit!

[daryn]

Stimulating conversation gone quiet

[chick_magnet_0001]

ok its my time to enter into this healthy discussion that hopefully will see some people realize what the definition of customer service, loyalty, manners and respect are.

ill start by stating a few facts after talking with a few of my fellow members about their "chip it"

multiple members have complained about their customer experience from "rob" in store regards to manners and respect

It takes alot more then 20(was it 20 or 30 ) "chip it"s to be sold in a "group buy" for the group buy organizer to receive a thank you from Chip it

direct quote from chip it: BLUFFING CUSTOMERS ONLY MAKE THE IGNORANT HAPPY AND THE WISE BITTER AND DISAPPOINTED … YOU WON’T GET THAT FROM US. so then why did you state that your price was going from $275( intro price) to finally settling on $600 after 6months( which is all well and good), and yet you still insist on charging $799 when most people are more then happy enough with the claimed 570nm that the standard tunes and standard chip give

These are only the things that have really cheesed me off with the company as a whole

As a concreter once famously said on our job site to someone doing wrong "Your just an arrogant F$@k" always makes me laugh


Chicky out........

[ultimate]

I wouldn’t mind trying the various power settings on the Steinbauer... does yours have this Brendan?
do you guys move it around or find there's a 'sweet spot' like I have found with my supplied chipIT tunes.. or let me guess you just run it at max and thats it

Sorry BG I didn't see your question. From what I have seen the Steinbauer doesn't come with the same type of adjustment as the Chip-it module. Each unit is tuned by the suppliers. West End Diesel has tuned all of the Steinbauers we have sold and they have all worked perfectly.

No performance product will suit everyone. A lot of our customers running the Steinbauer were looking for a set and forget product that would improve the power of their vehicle without compromising the reliability. Some people will see no adjustment as a down side where as others will appreciate it as there's less things to go wrong and the unit works well straight out of the box. A lot of our customers don't know much about engine management systems and were not keen on having to play around with a performance product to get it right. Especially on a very expensive vehicle.

Admittedly the Steinbauer did not produce as much power as the Chip-it module claims. That didn't worry us though as the gains are definitely noticeable off road or under load. I always use the Sprint Booster on road but turn it off and let the Steinbauer do its thing off road. It was definitely a breath of fresh air after having so many problems with different chips. I haven't used Chip-it so this is not a comparison test or anything like that. From what I have seen both products are good and should be assessed differently.

[borngeek]

Thanks Brendan

So it sounds like the module you guys have doesnt have the 80-130% dip switches like the version ironhide has..


I agree, and possibly most would too, that a set and forget product would be preferrable... Something 100% reliable and safe in every situation. Something that requires zero adjustment. I think from the experiences on this forum that to expect this from adding a performance chip yourself that this has a low chance of happening every time.

I for one had to adjust my chipIT to suit my engine. Whether I have a weaker fuel pump, crappy scv or something else who knows but 'out of the box' my engine would flatspot at 3500RPM and above.

Lucky enough I have 'the know how' to adjust my chip using the supplied cables and cd. This isn't something everyone can do and there is plenty people that have had to either contact chipIT and recieve support or 'phone a friend' on this forum. If you do not own a computer and the chipIT didn't work properly you are literally stuffed..

In any case the chipIT guys would give you your money back so at least there is no risk in that respect.

chicky, even though the first line of your post had me in stiches I am sure you can understand from their point of view that customer service is something that has perception. While some may not like the manner or 'attitude' of some people others have had positive experiences as well and remarked here that they were happy with the service they got whether it was Robert or Justin or someone else in their office. chipIT isn't a huge company from what I can tell and even though they are increasing the price in a pretty incredible fashion it still is mildly cheaper than the other alternatives. If I bought a steinbauer it would have probably been fitted and checked at the extra 400 odd dollars I would have to pay now.

Given there is options out there I guess you have to ask yourself.. Do I want to try this myself and risk having problems I have to solve myself (with the ability to call on support) OR do i drive into a performance place ask what my options are have them fit it and drive back in there like a good sort if I run into problems.... at a extra few bucks it costs for the steinbauer including fitting it may be the latter for some people IMO..

EDIT: Just so theres no mixed message.. I personally like the customisation features as I am a geek but I dont think its for everybody and as Brendan pointed out: "From what I have seen both products are good and should be assessed differently."

[scubapro]

Guys running chips that increase the rail pressure will eventually damage something. I have been through this this with TDC, No Limits & chip It. All gave me error codes & limp home modes at times that could have been very dangerous. I won't say which was the worst but the TDc was the better of the three by far.

Lucky for my Scangauge 11 which allowed me to quickly clear the codes & get running again, especially in the M5 tunnel towing a boat.

Fuel pump rebuilds are expensive I now run a Steinbauer & so far everything has been fanmtastic. It has performed flawlessly & great when towing my boat which was one of my first requirements.
My ute pulls like a frieght train up hills & I can overtake cars with the boat on the back effortlessy.

I just wish I had saved myself the expense of the other chips & bought the Steinbauer first. But like everyone we all look to save money.

[al coholic]

Here is the Chip IT vs Steinbauer debate in movie form ...............its NaffX and Ironhide going to war Listen very carefully to this one............there is more backflips in this discussion than a 16yo gymnast!!!!! This is purely all the posts pulled from the actual thread thrown into a movie, just a little bit of editing to make sure it all makes sense...............It is a bit long at 13 mins or so...............but please stick with it as it took me a long time to put together, stick right to the end for the director's cut!!!!

NaffX214 VS Ironhide......Chip debate

[chick_magnet_0001]

wheres the link?/??

[al coholic]

You click on the blue text part chicky.........geez come on mate Sorry. I have been downing the cans today, all fixed for ya

[chick_magnet_0001]

thats gold alco
ps love the end of it

[g_mac]

bahaha - i love it! esp. 4:51 - where he says, "That's fine, but you can't go around calling people stubborn or tight-arsed"

[al coholic]

I didnt make it up tho g-mac...........its all in this thread............word for word from Naff and Ironhide Well............almost word for word..

[Buzzy]

Bet that took some time, great work

[al coholic]

^^^Cut and paste is a wonderful thing

[g_mac]

I didnt make it up tho g-mac...........its all in this thread............word for word from Naff and Ironhide Well............almost word for word..

haha yeah I realise that, I was referring to the way the character talks and emphasises certain words - it's hilarious

[CHIP IT]

Thats if your info is correct.

ITS TRUE. NO BS here Ironside.

YOU try to confuse us by saying the ecu controls the fuel pressure, yes but the chip it is then modifying it true!

A little excercise in Common Rails technology. The Pump spins up a pressure ... always the same ... no extra labour ... more than factory pump is ever asked to produce. The ECU controls the pressure by adjusting a relief or valve. The less bleed off, the more pressure the rail has and the more fuel an open injector orifice will emit.

Now you also say the steinbauer puts the fuel in at the end of the combustion process, SO WHY is it that the chip it utes blow smoke

We develop more power and power comes from fuel. By giving folks to right/ability to tune much higher than Steinbauyer or others of course you will get some cars to blow smoke. In fact I could get all to blow smoke if I give them all too much. Gee its not that hard to understand is it?

As for the rest ... Steinbauyer in their own literature say they provide 20% more power. We have numerous vehicles out there with 30 - 40 -50% more torque. Also, check this out. CHIP IT vs YOU KNOW WHO (which is the European Brand is mention) http://chipit.com.au/chipped_vehicles/mitsubishi/triton/ml-triton

At the same power setting (which is pretty average for us) we are running much more efficiently. As can be seen

BTW, Steinbauyer are Austrian

[CHIP IT]

You got it in one.

You know how hard it is the pre-empt a signal. ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. And not done for any $sub 10,000 piece of equipment that I know of.

Also to add more info re fuel pump pressures on a CR vehicle

Yes pressure is modulated. However, only when the pump needs to keep up with higher demands (i.e.because the injectors are eating away at the pressure) will the pump kick in the second valve (that was diverting pressure back to tank) to compensate for the extra requirements of more pressure (from extra load on engine).

Hope this makes sense

Cheers

And yes the steinbauer module will slow the signal down as it processes the info, but so do all the modules! What the!

Ok Say on acceleration propagation delay is 5 ms you would be getting 5 ms delay on every injection cycle on every cylinder.
I would be getting 5ms on the pump and thats it.

I also believe that the steinbauer actually places fuel in earlier in some parts of the cycle, thats why they inprove the response down low in the rev range, so its not just at the end of the combustion cycle. Oh, and yes, a sensor pics up what the motor is reporting or doing, and sends it to the ecu I believe.

Sorry did you just say preemptive injection timing? Not without moving the opto on the crank.
from SB website
Real Timing
– the actual beginning and end of injection timing - is not achieved by any "chip" available for diesel engines today. It's misleading to suggest so. With Steinbauer, duration is achieved by adding pulse width to a signal, i.e. at end of injection. This is not changing timing. That's best left to the factory ECU

[CHIP IT]

Hi Borngeek.

Let me answer your questions in bullet form to keep succinct

The upgrade takes into consideration all. Ie 2 channel to 4 so we need the module back to upgrade it.

yes more complicated but really the only way the keep check on EGT's. The EGT controller is so sensive that if you rev the car, the gauge registers the full movement of the temps. A anolog gauge just cannot move so quickly. Also, if you hold the probe in your hand it will quickly register your body temp!

The type of turbo is not the issue here BG. We are asking the factory ECU to do the work it normally does. We just place a clamp on the higher end signal so that we get some more boost from the turbo. In actual fact, increasing the turbo pressure will cool DOWN EGT's.

I dont know whose advice you want but when listening to ironside I feel he is a little misimformed on these topics. That's OK. I was too before I knew things (of course). The only difference is that I kept my mouth shut and learnt before opening up, otherwise I just open up my mouth to change feet. But if you wish to listen to him, pls go right ahead.

Guys, you should all know that ALL performance mods lift the risk of failure of parts. It is just if that risk goes too far. If you want your engine to last 100 years, dont ever rev the thing past 1000rpms.

Re tunes. Send an email to just and ask for folder 1 tunes to suit your vehicle. The current crop of Chips, now have folder 1 and 2 for different tunes. If you want 20% gain, OK you can still buy our chip and save heaps when compared to SB. QUESTION: Do they have a cheaper chip option. NOPE. For 20% u pay full tilt boogey! ABOUT $600.00 MORE THAN OUR CHIP that has a wider range of use. Buy a Chip It Module and you can go from 20% to 40% and more . If you go more, we suggest you run a EGT monitor. ALL PROBLEMS SOLVED.

Hope this helps

Cheers

:lol: Well all you back seaters with pop corn, choc tops and beer enjoy as I think its a worthy discussion.

I have further questions relating to firstly heat and second the MN turbo.

Steinbauer build this 10 second detune thing in as std. ChipIT has not. So if I were to 'upgrade' my DPS215 to enable this similar idea but more advanced 'feature' what would it cost? Do I have to pay to expand from 2 channels to 4 as well as pay for the probe and display gear.. a different loom.. and then install it all.. Installing a EGT probe requires some skills.. So theres a bit of $ to spend on install too..

My temps (coolant) get VERY high under big loads.. (range from 77-109degrees ) - the chip is causing this as it did not happen before the chip and I have disabled to confirm this. I wont be upping my boost till I have a EGT guage.

Will you guys supply extra 'detuned' tunes? The ones supplied dont really range up and down the scale in terms of power.. They are mainly aimed at diff setups (auto, manual, exhaust, blanks etc). We can pony up for "PRO" software to do ourselves ($880 extra).. or book a custom tuning session at $x/hour. Can i bring my trailer, go 4wding, go for a run on the hightway and a run thru the city in this time to create a tune for each scenario easily? (and a 'detune' for each..)

I realise Steinbauer doesnt give this much customisation at all, I think the discussion can show the differences so people can make a decision based on budget, power requirements, features etc.


Variable turbo.. What is chipIT doing to the MN turbo boost (increase by how much). Is it bad practice as suggested by ironhide?
Are the MN's engines having more issues with the chipIT relative to the ML??

Although the steinbauer only increases power up to 20% vs chipIT up to 40% (claimed by both parties) both are pretty impressive performance gains in fact. Possibly 20% would suit some people.? Especially if they dont have to install EGT probes, cut MAP wires, pony up $$ on channel upgrades and installation and the like to get all the features working..

cheers, BG

EDIT: sorry.. and can you run the steinbauer without the throttle position thing? does it require a cut.. I assume this mean the Sprint Booster wont work either (dealbreaker for me )



//Thanks for the cleanup Daryn

[CHIP IT]

I personally favour the Steinbauer unit as it has proven to be more reliable ...

How can you say more reliable ... the only reason we get codes or limp mode is that we push the tunes to a much higher level.

If everyone was happy with 20% gains, ISSUES WOULD BE HISTORY !!!

As you walk the tight rope for more and more power we run the risk of more limps ... but that's the direction we choose to go down. If people want a lower state of tune, JUST download another lower tune to the module.

Or, when ordering, you can ask for 20% improvement only. That's OK too. But at 20% power you are still at $600.00 less than the oppostion.

It's not that hard.