Engine temps.

[srb]

@Srb how did you test the viscous fan, apparently there is a method where you get the truck upto temp and then get a rolled newspaper and run it though, if it stops the fan then the viscous fan is gone, if it shreds the paper its working well.

Here is a detailed vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUN17UEUWmc

Nar didn't do that, I just listin to the noise. I like your way though.

I just came back from my dealer, they are ordering a new viscous fan and thermostat. They will flush coolant as well so gotta be happy with that. The mechanic said my coolant was ok and was normal for this type of coolant. He said Mitsu's coolant is different to most other green coolants being a non silicate.He told me to never use coolants that have silicate as it will do damage over time.

Anyway I will be getting fixed up when it goes in for It's 30k service in a months time.

[JamoGLXR]

So digging up an old thread here like a good boy. its for removing heat first aesthetics second

im really contemplating installing vents ie negative pressure and thinking like the evo 10 with out the centre piece. Id like one over the top of the turbo and for symmetry id put one on the other side.im feeling of purchasing a second bonnet incase some government agencies dont like it and for any potential issues with inpsections. i havent looked into ADR / NSW redonkulous rules

my only thinking is that it may not be big enough. thoughts?
is there a decent way to measure air flow for a bit of testing?
suggestions for other styles?
after some googling at different styles of scoops and vents, the vents seem to have a rise infront of them. i assume thats to promote air flow over not to cut into part of the vent impeding the airflow out?
any other points that could be better for removing heat.

id love an older Evo style but im looking to remove air further back over the turbo.

[mgc_020]

I can't find the best topic to ask this question in, but I'll see how I go in this one. I am going to fit a EGT and Boost gauge soon and was wondering what brand of gauges people would recommend.

[Cowboy Dave]

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9784&p=207257&hilit=gauge#p207257

[mgc_020]

Thanks

http://www.newtriton.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9784&p=207257&hilit=gauge#p207257

[Moogun]

80 - 82 on rd, 78 - 80 round town on scan gauge.

[jrs184]

whats the Major differences between the MN and ML apart from the Engine Capacity>?
might be the 2.5 working a little harder?

Any other thought Tritonians?

I'm tipping they run the engine a little warmer to reduce the emissions level

Nitrous oxide is the demon they are dealing with and it is produced at higher combustion temps, hence the cooling effect of EGR added to reduce combustion temps and therefore Nitrous oxide emissions. So I don't think the MN would have higher combustion temps than ML. Also I believe the lower combustion temps increase the exhaust temps. Will check with my gauge and report back on my ML temps. My std temp gauge in the car reads always just a little below half way regardless of hills, but that is not towing or fully loaded. John

[trouble]

Had my ML as high as 120', towing 2T up hill with a mad tune (thanks Geek) pissing black smoke.
Generally sits around 78-82' around town and higher on the freeway around 90-95', both laden and unladen.
(Scan gauge)

[RHKTriton]

My ml never moves far off 80 for normal driving, maybe up to 85 during summer.

Can't see how egr reducing combustion temps would then end up in higher exhaust temps - where does this heat come from?

[TUFF TROOP]

My ml 3.2 hits 97_100 towing car trailer with a commodore on it loaded up hills etc.. That's on tune 5, with 3" exhaust, Tony's mod, snorkel fullbar work winch and 34s etc

[AnOldFart]

My ml never moves far off 80 for normal driving, maybe up to 85 during summer.

Can't see how egr reducing combustion temps would then end up in higher exhaust temps - where does this heat come from?

First Law of Thermodynamics, ie, Perpetual Motion...

[Stumpy]

Hi I haven't got a scanguage yet (hopefully it will be delivered tomorrow) but I know my temp gauge on my MN sits just above 1/2, it doesn't really seem to move from there around town but I was also worried about when summer comes considering its cold at the moment but I hope it's ok in the hot weather as I'm heading up to the Cape in a few months. I had my temp guage get right up to just before the red but that was winching uphill with the wheels spinning, as soon as I backed it off and rest it for 5mins it was back to normal. I hope this is normal

[jman]

Hi guys- With all highway work in my15 auto the regular gauge sits spot on half way which is 90 deg on scangauge with minimal load in ute.

Cheers- Jman

[jrs184]

I reached 115 degrees going up steep mountain 2nd gear at 2300rpm lightly loaded 3 people ML 3.2l triton, temp came down quickly after the summit then climbed again on the next steep uphill section, tried the heater on full with all windows open to pull it down to 110, once over the hill temp went back to normal, I have egr ET mod, catchcan as the only mods, does this indicate a problem with cooling or carbon in the inlet manifold (haven't cleaned them yet) and what is the temp limit for these engines. I checked the coolant and there was no loss apart from a few drops under the catch reservoir, the fan seems to work ok, I turned the a/c off before the climb, I tried searching all the forum for info but no luck, any suggestions would be appreciated thanks John..

[coughy]

maybe it is time for the coolant to be replaced as you said it cooled down after you were over the summit
which tells me your fan is working ok.
coolant doesnt last forever maybe you need some more concentrated coolant percentage for the heat
has it been serviced recentley might be running a bit fat??
was there black smoke from rear?? as you were going up?

[GLRkenny]

How's your radiator core, possibly full of mud/dirt, sounds like its lacking airflow

[jrs184]

maybe it is time for the coolant to be replaced as you said it cooled down after you were over the summit
which tells me your fan is working ok.
coolant doesnt last forever maybe you need some more concentrated coolant percentage for the heat
has it been serviced recentley might be running a bit fat??
was there black smoke from rear?? as you were going up?

My mate was behind in a 3.0 petrol challenger and said no smoke of any colour, he said his temp didn't move above halfway. My coolant was changed 15k ago with the clear stuff just before I bought it, don't know at what percentage they used altho' I see now they are recommending 50/50 ratio for the 2.5 diesels. I checked the cores and they all seem very clean and the fan is blowing hot air..my oil was changed 5w-40 pentrite semi syth. 5k ago both fluids are still clean. Air filter gets a clean every 2 weeks, MAF just done. I would like to know if there is a temp limit that should not be exceeded. I know 115 degrees is getting hot. Running on the highway pulling a double axle trailer it doesn't get hot and if I work the car on highway gradients all I see is about 100degrees, it just gets hot in the lower gears at steady 2300rpm up steep hills where it has to work, there is still plenty of power there. Thanks for your replies...

[jrs184]

For tritons with a 1.1bar radiator cap, the coolant will do its job and stay a liquid up to 125degrees celsius, any hotter and the coolant fails, that is boils and becomes gaseous, the bubbles cause the engine to overheat and the components to fail due to cavitation. The coolant can't remove heat if there are bubbles.
Now I have searched this forum and googled the safe maximum working temperature for tritons ML and MN and have had no luck, My question still remains unanswered, what is the maximum safe working temperature for the tritons. My car ran up to 115 degrees then cooled down, I still don't know if that is a safe limit or an ok temp to run to for a short while.
There are caps available that run at 1.3 bar and allow a higher temp before boiling but these are for track work where coolant is prohibited to contain glycol etc in case of spills. So dont think you can just get a stronger cap to solve heating probs, it also means the increased pressure will move the weak point in the cooling system from the cap to another point like, radiator, hoses, clamps, or whatever....thanks for your time John

[Cowboy Dave]

The MNs that have been subject to the overheating service campaign have been fitted with the 1.3 caps. They also changed the coolant mix to 50/50 which I gather means they will go hotter before hitting the coolant failure you describe. The difference between 1.1 and 1.3 isn't massive but as you say there is extra pressure there and if you have any weak points in the cooling system they're more likely to come to the fore with that extra pressure and/or heat.

I'm not sure that there is a known maximum temperature. I assume Mitsubishi would know one, but I doubt it is a published figure. With the MN's they have flashed the ECUs with a new limp mode which kicks in to protect the engine from excessive heat - I had mine up to about 105 without that kicking in but it would be interesting to know where they set the ceiling there as it might be an indication of the sort of cut off point you're after.

My personal view is that 115 is too hot. Something isn't right there. To me once you hit 100 degrees you're into dangerous territory but that's probably an old fashioned view based on historical parallels with water boiling at that point.

Is yours an auto? I gather some of the MLs didn't have ATF coolers and used part of the radiator for ATF cooling. That would add additional punishment to your cooling system generally. If it's not an auto then obviously ignore that.

There aren't really all that many options for you to explore in looking for the problem. Thermostat, radiator flush, air locks, coolant issues, radiator core blocked internally or coated in mud or full of grass seeds externally are the sorts of things that come to mind. Water pump issues maybe?

No chance you've mixed coolants at some point? There have been accounts of genuine coolant coagulating when mixed with other brands.

[Speedy70]

Mine throws a CEL and goes into limp mode when it hits 120c which I am guessing is what Mitsubishi consider to be the limit before serious engine damage occurs (built into the ECU software). Mine is one of the ones waiting to get a new engine under warranty and has over heated 4 times now (3 while towing/1 unladen). On mine, the factory temperature guage needle doesn't move up until the coolant temp hits about 115c, so without a scan guage (or similar) or an anxilliary water temperature guage, you don't really have any warning that the engine is about to overheat or how hot the coolant temperature really is just by monitoring the factory guage. For example, my temperature guage stays in the same spot regardless of whether it is 86c to about 114c. IMHO I reckon there would be a few Tritons out there on the verge of over heating with their owners mindless to the fact of how hot the coolant temperature really is because the factory guage stays in the same spot.

[jrs184]

Mine throws a CEL and goes into limp mode when it hits 120c which I am guessing is what Mitsubishi consider to be the limit before serious engine damage occurs (built into the ECU software). Mine is one of the ones waiting to get a new engine under warranty and has over heated 4 times now (3 while towing/1 unladen). On mine, the factory temperature guage needle doesn't move up until the coolant temp hits about 115c, so without a scan guage (or similar) or an anxilliary water temperature guage, you don't really have any warning that the engine is about to overheat or how hot the coolant temperature really is just by monitoring the factory guage. For example, my temperature guage stays in the same spot regardless of whether it is 86c to about 114c. IMHO I reckon there would be a few Tritons out there on the verge of over heating with their owners mindless to the fact of how hot the coolant temperature really is because the factory guage stays in the same spot.

Thanks for the input Dave, my ML is manual, the 50/50 mix with a 1.1 cap (1.1bar) gives the boiling temp at 125 degrees Celsius for that pressure. Other issues arise with that mix if you increase the pressure to 1.3 bar via the cap. The 1.3 caps were designed for temporary or monitored (racetrack) use with greater water ratio as water behaves as a better coolant than Glycol due to its conductivity, where glycol component increases the boiling point and lowers the freeze point and reduces the conductivity but increases the lubricity of the coolant for seals etc. Race cars don't have to worry about coolant freezing. It gets complicated and I would assume Mitsu would have very cluey help with decisions to solve a heating problem just by increasing the pressure and mix ratio. I bought my car just serviced, with oil changed, coolant, egr cleaned, tappets done, so I assume the manifolds were not done and possibly need to be done, my question relates to whether the carbon issue in the manifolds causes the symptom of increase in temperature under load. I did the ET mod and catchcan as soon as I got the car and thought that at least the carbon in the manifolds would not get any worse until the next major or tappet service where I will get new manifolds put on at the same time. The car has done 115 000km now and the coolant does not look coagulated in the reservoir, and is still at the same level when I bought it 15 000km ago. Thanks John...ps. I think it would be very useful info for the forum to know when at what temp you must not proceed further without cooling off for all diesel Mitsus..I thought it was a simple question but looks like only Mitsu may know and they are not telling...125 degrees may be the coolant upper limit but what is the upper limit of the mechanicals before wounding/injury occurs and who wants to drive a wounded animal...

[Cowboy Dave]

Well it sounds like from what Speedy posted above 120 is the limit they're putting on the newer MNs. I've been running the new 1.3 cap for maybe 4 or 5,000 kms now. It seems to run 4 or 5 degrees hotter now with that extra pressure so I am seriously considering going back to the 1.1 anyway.

Carbon deposits should in theory mean it will run a bit richer on fuel as it's getting less air in if I understand the process. So I guess that would make it run hotter?

But if that was the issue you'd have abnormally high temps (to a greater or lesser degree) for an ML all the time wouldn't you?

If it was me I'd still be flushing the whole cooling system. Yes it was serviced before you picked it up but it is an unknown as to whether that was properly done or whether some prior person has chucked in a can of barsleaks or something else similar that has decreased the efficiency of the radiator somehow.

Also as Speedy has pointed out apart from those of us with 3rd party gauges most drivers won't even know the temperatures they're running so having a published maximum wouldn't do any of those people any good. Still it isn't a maximum you want to be finding out about by having something go bang is it?

[jrs184]

My ml never moves far off 80 for normal driving, maybe up to 85 during summer.

Can't see how egr reducing combustion temps would then end up in higher exhaust temps - where does this heat come from?

Thanks to the guys on here i got myself a scanguage so i can keep an eye on things before they get worse, a few on the UK forum have had overheatng problems, and because it wasnt spotted earlier on, theyve had their headgaskets go

That's a good investment even a cheap knock off type that reads digitally your temp (ect), vs, tp, etc, is worthwhile and if it picks up an error code it can save you heaps and just for peace of mind they are well worth the investment, mine was $50 with the partial refund but I use it all the time, have my wife monitor the temps while I negotiate the climbs...

[peterdeg]

Geeze, and I thought hitting 97 degrees towing the camper up Mt Ousley on Australia Day was "bad"

Perhaps I should unplug the extra fan and try it again to see what difference it makes.

[Crash486]

I have mentioned in the service campaign thread but this looks a good place to restate. Like CD after the new radiator cap etc my temps have increased up to 9 degrees (88C on the hill is now 97C and that's unladen). Scared to tow now... grrrr