Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

[Cowboy Dave]

Also with the MN you get LSD rear (standard) if you dont choose the d/l option.

Might want to check that one Matt. The lower models in the range can have the LSDs but as I understand it they use traction control to make a standard diff act like an LSD in the GLXR and some other models.

[salt36]

Good news Joe.


I have been looking at these for a while as they are cheap compared to an air locker.

Being able to get somewhere without the bashing and crashing is the major advantage for me

Check the Wombat hole for a perfect example, I did get out of there but sustained damage......

Bill65 drove straight out of it, one go with a front air lock........and mud tyres

[al coholic]

You would need to engage 4wd for it to work though Salt There in lies your problem i think!!! No more 2wd challenge

[har05l]

I have seen a few of the front locked guys VS rear locked, and it does seem the front locker is better. Geek made a good example in this thread somewhere......

"Is it easier to push you wheelie bin up the hill or pull it up the hill??" There is your answer

I'll start reversing up the hard stuff then and this in turn would be pulling me up the hill, not pushing

Front and rear locked then

[borngeek]

Who stirred this up again???? Oh 26.....

All the front locked guys ATM are ML's with no TC. Most of us have the LSD rear.

In 26's post one thing rings true

One needs to be careful when putting large amounts of torque through the front diff....

Absolutely. You will have to back off when using the FL... But you can easily

Really a factory locked MN with after market front should be same as ML in same config as TC deactivates. You could always leave the rear off But the LSD in the ML will outperform one thinks over a open rear diff MN??

The biggest test would be a dual locked aftermarket MN (didnt tick factory lock) as TC will remain engaged.... When dual locked....

TC is useless on sand but seems capable everywhere else so far. Especially rocky hill climbs. So in conjunction with lockers would be a beast.

Need some MN guys to get the ball rolling to see hey!

[ag9111]

Stay Tuned Geek

[Homer]

Matt....check out Joe's post at the top of this page He has just installed an aftermarket front locker and already had the factory rear locker........so he was able to test out the difference of the two.....and in his opinion the front locker is MORE advantageous when off road.

I have seen a few of the front locked guys VS rear locked, and it does seem the front locker is better. Geek made a good example in this thread somewhere......

"Is it easier to push you wheelie bin up the hill or pull it up the hill??" There is your answer


But you are right........at $700 the rear locker is a great value for money option, and easily beats no locker at all

You hit the nail on the head here Alco

Matt is right, it wasn't a regulated test comparison, but it was as close as we could get - which was quite close IMO.

2 ML's, identical tyres, both suspension lifts, both front and rear bars, similar/same tyre pressures etc...only difference was we had 2 different engines and one had a canopy (which would assist the rear locked car due to weight over the axle).

It was ML only as there are no MN's around that we know of with a front locker, but one would think if the TC didn't have a heart attack when an aftermarket front locker was engaged it would be as good as a dual locked ML.

The front locked cars went much further, much easier.
The front locked car with an open rear diff went much further, much easier than the rear locked car.
Although there was a different MT tyre brand on the rear locked car - but they were brand new as opposed to half worn on the front locked cars.

The only thing we couldn't test was twin locked V front locked - LSD. It stands to reason that twin locked will certainly have an advantage here but we couldn't replicate that in practise.

That was because with the 2 "test" cars we couldn't find terrain that would allow one to out climb the other. They either both made it, or both got stuck - within mm's of each other. I'm sure there will be situations that this will change.
There was also the first up/second up scenario to take into consideration as the twin locked was second up meaning the track was possibly damaged by the first cars attempts, although it appears the Triton wheelbase/design may be the deciding factor here.
This is where serious suspension articulation, lifts and BIG tyres will come in to play. Once front locked, the car is close to as capable as it will get without these major type mods.
How much pressure/breakages that will put on components will then be the next level again.

We did try and compare apples with apples as much as possible though as the banter on here has been all opinions only and no one has driven the front locked cars for an accurate assessment.

It should be noted that there have been occasions where the front locked Tritons have out climbed 37" tyred, 4" lifted, twin locked GU Patrol that required snatching before the Tritons then drove past...

[borngeek]

As for pressure breakage.
Unlike SAS twin lock guys doing axles and crown wheels in the front we will be snapping CV's which is a much cheaper fix So there is built in protection for the IFS vehicles that run too much torque.

As stated this is yet to be proven long term

//I am tuned in AG tell us more who will be FIRST?

[al coholic]

The only downside i have noticed with the TC on the MN's is it is a bit slower to react compared to a vehicle doing the same climb with a locker. The vehicle seems to sit there spinning the wheels for a second or two before controlling the wheels and you do need a bit more loud pedal aswell. But it is highly effective as the others have said especially on rocky climbs........and it is far easier to climb a hill with traction compared to an unlocked vehicle like mine where the nut behind the wheel is all about full noise


BTW Ken.......reversing up hills is so much more fun than going foward Ask Brad about the last Mt Sugarloaf trip

[ag9111]

Rear LSD is no different to Traction Control in that they both need some degree of slip to operate. LSD works faster though

[Mattstruck]

I guess what I am trying to say is I agree with you all but the test method is not 100%.

I have the rear d/l factory and reckon you are better missing that option and getting after market front...

Combined with LSD and TC (MN GLXR) is would be a beast.

Otherwise you need to get a front locker (to combine with the rear factory unit) to be really well set up.

Otherwise you miss the TC and have an open front.

What I am saying about the test method is we need myth busters to set this up for a 100% true test.

You need to eliminate the undriven wheels from the equation.

Kind of like sending a d/l camry up a hill and then a d/l commodore.

A true front v rear comparison.

When you throw LSD's T/C, tyres, weights etc into the equation it gets distorted.

As for pushing bins up a hill... thats just an analogy. All due respect but its not exactly grounded in physics or facts. I find it easier to push my wheel barrow... but it doesnt really tell me much about my car

Also just wondering on the CV front. If you carry a spare one will it fit both sides or do you need a left and right one?? IE do you need to carry 2? Sure they would be different lengths... at least.

Not too sure about the lokka info above. I have the MN super select. Is it not reccomended?

[Cowboy Dave]

Testing to date has been imperfect but powerfully persuasive. This has been admitted/conceded repeatedly.

The chances of two vehicles with the same tyres, suspension, factory options and different diff locks are dangerously approaching zero so a perfect test will never happen, unless, as you say, we get mythbusters to do it.

The MN GLXR does not come with an LSD.

The CVs are different each side. There is a thread on the install process that shows this.

The lokka is no good for superselect models if you plan to use all wheel drive on wet sealed roads. If you only ever use all wheel drive off road it may be an option for you.

I have no hills where I push or pull bins, don't own a wheel barrow and have no diff locks (yet ) so I am a perfectly unqualified expert. But I've watched two rear locked MLs and two front locked MLs climb the same hill. I'd have much rathered sitting in the sedate front locked vehicles than the caned rear locked vehicles.

[Joe]

Also just wondering on the CV front. If you carry a spare one will it fit both sides or do you need a left and right one?? IE do you need to carry 2? Sure they would be different lengths... at least.

Not too sure about the lokka info above. I have the MN super select. Is it not reccomended?

Left and right CV's matt.

And you can run a front Lokka in a super select vehicle, but it means you can't (shouldn't) run it in 4wd of any description on the black top which kind of makes it a bit like easy select. Not a problem for some.

[Steane]

unless, as you say, we get mythbusters to do it.

I'd believe anything Kari says...

[Naff]

Also just wondering on the CV front. If you carry a spare one will it fit both sides or do you need a left and right one?? IE do you need to carry 2? Sure they would be different lengths... at least.

Not too sure about the lokka info above. I have the MN super select. Is it not reccomended?

Left and right CV's matt.

Oh..you learn something new everyday.. sooo left and right sitting in the car or looking at the front :p you know, just in case I have to go and replace someone's one day... might just say driver side to be safe.

[Joe]

Also just wondering on the CV front. If you carry a spare one will it fit both sides or do you need a left and right one?? IE do you need to carry 2? Sure they would be different lengths... at least.

Not too sure about the lokka info above. I have the MN super select. Is it not reccomended?

Left and right CV's matt.

Oh..you learn something new everyday.. sooo left and right sitting in the car or looking at the front :p you know, just in case I have to go and replace someone's one day... might just say driver side to be safe.

Driver's it is then

[Homer]

I will offer an unqualified opinion on the MN and front locker.

The front DL would 100% be the way to go IF you know for sure it doesn't trouble the T/C.

If the front locker is usable with traction control then the rear locker is not the option to get as it is $700+ spent for an option that wont work very well unless you can trick the T/C into staying ON when the button is pushed.

If the electronic modification/intercept to trick the TC into staying on when the rear locker is activated is very cheap and easy, then it wouldn't matter and would be a very good option - if not then...don't go the rear locker option if you intend to go hard off road.

As I say the above scenario is only if the T/C continues to operate with the front locker engaged and you are relatively serious about going off road.

Otherwise the rear locker will get you most places and is a relatively cheap option - also being a standard option it wont look as much like your car has been 'used' off road and potentially bush bashed when selling via private sale.

And Matt - as for the comparison we did everything possible that myth busters could do other than have an MN there and the same driver in each car.
I think you have misunderstood what I wrote.

Joe has a twin locked Triton - factory rear locker therefore open rear diff. He has a $1,000 (fitted) Lokka in the front.

With his rear locker OFF and running an open rear diff only - that is no LSD - he easily out performed the rear locked car. That is with front only and open rear diff....easily outperformed it.
The rear locked car couldn't drive the hill (was stuck) and he crawled up it at walking speed and maybe 1500rpm with hardly a wheel spin.
He wasn't far behind the front locked/LSD rear cars.

[snowman]

Get a rear locker.

IF you need more traction then get a front one.

n e e d t o s t o p t y p i n g ..........

[Homer]

Bwahaha I thought you'd be the next reply

Between lockers and trains, you me and your dad could go all night long

And where is this elusive Joe fellow when this debate heats up.....

[snowman]

Bwahaha I thought you'd be the next reply

Between lockers and trains, you me and your dad could go all night long

And where is this elusive Joe fellow when this debate heats up.....

Dunt is hiding in the bushes. he has an each way bet now.

....half his luck.


and yeah don't start my old man on model trains . FFS i reckon i will find him dead one day with a model carriage stuffed down his gob and mum will be trailing dust for a few days peace before they come to lock her up.

NOTT

[har05l]

If the electronic modification/intercept to trick the TC into staying on when the rear locker is activated is very cheap and easy, then it wouldn't matter and would be a very good option - if not then...don't go the rear locker option if you intend to go hard off road.

Please homer, stop

Other than the tyres I have fitted I run stock standard. The rear D/L works a treat and the Wheeny creek trip is testament to this. I've been associated with numerous 4wd clubs in the past and if I was to ask to join them in what I have now they would definitely not allow me . This track is classed as an "A" grade track and the minimum requirements are 2" lift, D/L and no smaller than 33" tyres.

Every time I hit the tracks I drive hard and surprise many.

In the long run front will be more costly unless care is taken because weaker components won't handle the stress

now I muussstttt stop typing

/ can't wait to drive pappa bear in under 37secs

[Homer]

Again more opinions with no experience of the Triton with a front locker.

Everything above is 100% accurate and tested - besides the MN opinion - which I qualified.

Haro, I'm not being silly here mate. The rear locker is not a patch on the front locker in off road performance in these cars - no matter who is driving. Not a patch.
It is far and away the best vehicle mod on these cars for off road work - nothing comes close.

You guys who haven't driven one need to stop commenting until you do, it's that simple. Most of you haven't even watched one - the guys that have seen them have stopped commenting - well every one bar one and he can be heard in numerous vids going jeez..front locker

In 6 months time when you have all driven in or beside the front locked cars you should come back and re-read the stuff being written here.

Ask Joe. His first opening comment on the front locker was "it shits all over the rear locker".

He was firmly in the rear locker camp before he drove it - then after the first hill he was and that was with an open rear diff.

Look, each to their own but the reason I am so adamant on it is not because I have one - it is because this is a Triton information site and some of the people commenting need to have a point of reference before muddying the waters or people will be reading this shite and being steered up the garden path by people with theories and no evidence.

If you want the best off road performance from your Triton, the front locker is a must have. It may not be as effective on other 4wd's, but it is on the Triton.

Not everyone will want to do that, which is fine (I can't say that enough), but people considering modifying their car to go as hard core as a Triton will go should go down this path.

From there you can go extreme tyres and extreme suspension but IMO the front locker should be first mod before these as it is considerable.
That last sentence is just my opinion but I believe a 32 shod front locked Triton will still outdrive a 34 shod added articulation rear locked vehicle - relatively easily.

Again that last bit is just my opinion but I think you guys are about to find out for yourselves soon on a trip...

[borngeek]

Dream ON rear locker girls!

Example:
Same hill. Rear locker had ADVANTAGE of going AFTER. Pretty much very similar in terms of tyres, suspension lift and willingness of each driver to give things a red hot go if required...


Front locker: (37 Seconds)
VS
Rear locker: (3 MINUTES, 20 seconds)


clearly front locker rules

In fact I am convinced I could do 3:20 with just my LSD and no front locker

[chick_magnet_0001]

Again more opinions with no experience of the Triton with a front locker.



You guys who haven't driven one need to stop commenting until you do, it's that simple. Most of you haven't even watched one - the guys that have seen them have stopped commenting - well every one bar one and he can be heard in numerous vids going jeez..front locker

ill chime in here saying the front locker out does the rear for everything, control-ability, just point and drive no rear boucing/sliding around trying to push the front up/threw the obsticle, looking at this from a mechanical point of view your a nob if u still believe the front locker doesn't out do the rear locker in a triton. These vehicles have far more flex in the rear but with a heavy engine up front the ifs really benefits because of the weight placed on one wheel( when a locker is really needed) enabling this wheel to just grab because its now got the whole weight of the front end of the car upon it.
this is from having experience watching Homer and Borngeek(navi) drive some hills that rear lockers really struggled on

so Homer thats now two people that support you with first hand experience.... and btw guys ive got a rear locker if your asking.....

chicky out......

[Cowboy Dave]

err maybe it's 3 people because I'm sure I chimed in somewhere to support them as well. actually it's more than 3 because there's Joe, Geek, Chicky and I and to a lesser extent Snowie chimed in as well.

I still reckon for $700 I'd tick the rear locker box when buying it (mad not to if you ask me) but the front locker would remain a must have if you're going to get serious about all this stuff.