Diff Lock or not to diff lock...

[Joe]

I had my 4WD Systems Lokka installed last week. Went camping at Flannagan's Reserve and ducked up to City View for a bit of a wheel.

So what are my thoughts on an the Lokka?

Bloody awesome

One thing that put me off getting an auto Lokka was being told to expect heavy steering in 4WD. I'm happy to say that my steering did not feel any heavier. The steering returns to centre more aggressively, but it is not heavier. I was expecting to have to change the way I drive to allow for it, but I found that the only change in my driving was driving slower instead of crashing and bashing. I also left the rear DL off for pretty much the whole City View trip and only turned it on if I needed to.

There is one hill in the play area at City View which Homer made it up in the wet last time there and no one else could get even half way up. So fridge goes first this time, dragging his diff nearly the whole way. Took a while and a bit of forwards and backwards, but he made it. I went up without the rear DL engaged and it just walked up. I only engaged the rear DL for a small step up near the top. I lost traction and came to a stop with wheels just spinning. In the past I would of had given it a few berries to get over it but this time I just engaged the rear DL and Bruce crawled up without any fuss.

Having the front locked shits all over having the rear locked IMHO . A big statement maybe and fuel for Homer and geek and obviously duel locked is the only way to go , but anyone who is cranky with themselves for not ticking the rear DL option should not be disappointed in having a front locked, rear LSD Triton. It would be much better than just a rear locked one IMO. Bruce would go further with the front locked and an open rear than just a rear DL. A bit more testing is needed (at Coffs maybe ), but so far I'm happy as a pig in shit.

So if you want to lock the front, get an auto Lokka. I would class this as the best mod to my Triton so far

How they work from their website

The actual principal of it's operation while easily demonstrated is difficult to explain in writing - but is as follows.

1. LOKKA has only 4 main parts - a pair of Cam and Axle (side) gears for each axle, there are some springs and pins, some have spacers.

2. LOKKA is normally in a fully locked state and only allows differential action by unlocking the unit when the ground driven force acting on a wheel (either during turning or when negotiating obstacles) forces that wheel to turn faster than the other driven wheel.
ie a turning vehicle's wheels actually travel two different paths with the inside wheel turning in one circle while the outside wheel travels in a larger circle, and therefore faster.

3. LOKKA makes use of two distinctly different sets of opposing forces that exist due to its design - one to dynamically couple the gears when engine torque is applied and the other to uncouple the gears when one wheel overruns.

3a. The locking force is applied by the action of the pinion cross shaft acting on a uniquely designed and shaped cam - the more torque that is applied the harder the unit locks.

3b. The unlocking action occurs due to the ramping effect between the low profile ramped teeth which force the cam away from the axle (side gear) eg when an outside wheel turns faster than than an inside wheel when cornering. Power continues to be applied to the inside axle. As the turn is completed and the wheels again rotate at the same speed, the outside lock re-engages.

4. It should be understood that only when there is an external force being applied to a wheel to make it turn faster than the rest of the drive train will LOKKA allow one wheel to differentiate. Slippery surfaces where one wheel would normally break traction in an open diff cause LOKKA to stay locked - even with one or both wheels in the air, LOKKA will remain locked.

and

LOKKA will perform the same as open and LSD differentials when the vehicle is driven under equal traction conditions, ie on road. The LOKKA allows the wheels to "differentiate" around the turn, but reverses the operation in that it transfers the engine torque (hence drive) to the inside wheel, rather than the outside wheel.

I have Easy Select, but I beleive these also work with Super Select. My understanding is that if you have one in a vehicle with Super Select, then it just means you can no longer run on bitumen in 4WD at all.

[borngeek]

Great writeup Joe!

For easy select guys this is a no brainer, half the price installed over the arb equivalent.
For those with super select it is a very personal decision.
I need 4H in the wet around town so it would not suit me but for those that never use super select and only in 4wd off road again I would save the money and go lokka.


I particularly like this bit of your post

Having the front locked shits all over having the rear locked IMHO

So who's next?

[reeldreamer]

Funny that I got flamed when I suggested the Lokka in another thread about electric lockers people said it wont work blah blah blah. I was told they would work and Joe is proof of this! I want one!

[Homer]

I particularly like this bit of your post

Having the front locked shits all over having the rear locked IMHO

X2

It was a pleasure to watch the car walk up that hill

[ag9111]

I particularly like this bit of your post

Having the front locked shits all over having the rear locked IMHO

[snowman]

I particularly like this bit of your post

Having the front locked shits all over having the rear locked IMHO

yes Garth i am feeling your pain. However there is a still a reliability factor to be confirmed.

a $700 rear locker is still the best value traction aid in my opinion, with complete warranty. The Lokka is still not recommended in super select vehicles of which most of the current ones are, since 09.

To keep this thread in some degree of normal 4wding, MOST people will get great benefit from a rear D/L vehicle and never travel the fairly hardcore tracks that people like Joe, Homer, Garth, Geek, Selwyn, Myself, Ken, etc. will do. almost all these people have panel damaged their cars from 4wding and the significant portion of owners don't do that hard core stuff.

I have seen on many, many occasions the ease of a rear D/L optioned vehicle easily out climb a rear LSD only vehicle. It doesn't even need to be a climb - relatively easy wombat holes are the most likely scenario.

If you intend to go offroad and need to wait for your new car anyway - tick the rear D/L option.

if you want to mountain goat and go real hard core - then a front locker is without doubt very worthwhile - but i would still tick the rear D/L box anyway.

more to the point as well is that a twin locked Triton (with lift and tyres) is tackling some VERY scary places and if you dont have the right driver mentality (or is that just mental) then you are wasting your money on aftermarket lockers anyway at $2000 a pop. although the front lokka is half that it can only be recommended for 'easy select' drivetrains anyway. And the jury is still not fully 'in' on the high range driveability of the lokka just yet.

These front locked Belters will have to concede the above is fair and reasonable and above all, true.

[ag9111]

[Joe]

You can always trust the snowman to put across a well thought out and balanced view

[helicoptercow]

... doesn't stop you wanting on though

[Homer]

OK this needs a bit more balance than what has been given or more incorrect info will be put out there by people who haven't driven them

I AM NOT putting shit on the rear locked cars which is the way every front locked vehicle review has been received by the rear locked guys and then skewed to inaccuracy by sheer weight of numbers/posts.

Snowie has some very valid points, but it is also looking at it from a different perspective and from a slightly pro rear stance or a person who is more of a tourer (nothing wrong with that and not putting Snowie in the tourer category by any means ).
And I have no panel damage - unless Lantana scratches are counted.

A balanced response from a pro front stance.

And it should be noted we have tested these cars side by side numerous times now.

If you use super select when on the road, then everything said is true regarding the auto Lokka - and also the fact about the cost of the air locker compared to the rear.
You can still buy the air locker at $2,000 including a fitted air compressor ($500 of that cost) and have a significantly more capable vehicle if you want (I believe there is at least one other type of air locker a fair bit cheaper). It wont change on road driving whatsoever - you don't even know you have one, just like the rear locker.

If you don't use super select 4H on the road then you are paying for the wrong locker (rear) as it is maybe half as effective as a $200 dearer front Lokka and extra $1,300 for an air locker and compressor setup.

With easy select you can have either Locker/Lokka with the Lokka coming in quite a lot cheaper. Lokka will always be on in 4wd, the air locker is able to be switched off.

Once you have the front locker it will generally quite easily traverse a hill at walking speed that a rear locked vehicle will not climb - or at best will have to hit multiple times at 40kph. This will certainly instigate damage to the vehicle down the track. This may well be a significant hill, but not a dangerous or 'extreme' one.
This is how extreme the hill is in a rear locked car


This is the same hill in a front locked car


The front locker changes the grading of the hill to a less dangerous/hard grading.

Yes it can also entice you to go to the edge, but that is totally a driver thing and the edge is a lot further than it is in rear locked cars.

Now also add the very real scenario about to hit everyone - there is going to be a shortage of vehicles VERY soon due to the Japanese Tsunami wiping out the suppliers to the industry - especially Toyota.
It will be a 9 month wait (that's the best guess at the moment from the experts) if you want a different colour or different option (rear locker) and that is for the least worst hit manufacturers - of which I believe Mits is one.

Our limited real life tests have shown:

A front locked vehicle shits all over a rear locked vehicle (from a rear locked vehicle owner - not me).

A front locked vehicle with LSD is anywhere between 90% and 99% as capable as a twin locked vehicle - I say this as it is 100% identical in all cases tested so far but assume twin locked will have to be better in some instances - probably slippery mud.

Front locked vehicles will climb much steeper hills at much safer speeds than a rear locked vehicle, meaning less chance of damage or losing control.

Front locked vehicles may stress the CV's more than a rear locked vehicle - but at this stage the jury is out due to the slow speed and not bouncing the front on hard climbs like you do with the rear.

For ML's
If you are serious about going off road get the LSD and a version of the front locker/Lokka. Or twin locked if you want to pay a premium for something that may give you 10% at best but probably closer to 1-5% more capability.

If you want medium level capability (or really quite capable with a bit of right boot) and the comfort of being able to hit the switch to get you up harder hills - as well as the comfort of the rear locker warranty (however that may help as no rear diffs go on these anyway) then a rear locker is a great option.

If you are into touring then it doesn't matter - rear locker should help with re-sale.

MN's you are on your own - I am assuming you will need a rear locker to legally turn off the TC so you can use your front locker.
I believe there are cheap, easy options out there to achieve the above without the need for the rear locker - but not sure about legality.

The bottom line - and I'm sure Joe will agree coming from a rear locked vehicle is that the front locker is significantly better. I think I heard something like - the rear does nothing...doesn't matter if it's on or off, the front pulls you up the hill at walking speed.

For the rear locked guys - the difference between front and rear is much greater than when you turn your locker on if that can give you some perspective.

Now I'll have a crack

If you want to drive up a hill, buy a front locker/lokka....if you want to sit back and watch them, buy a rear

[Cowboy Dave]

On the MN/traction control issue, I discussed this with an ARB rep at the recent supershow. He was saying that the traction control works by detecting a wheel which is spinning at a different rate to its opposite number. With a diff lock his contention was that the vehicle would not detect a different speed because both wheels on the locked axle will spin at the same speed.

So, his take on it was that traction control wouldn't be disabled by an air locker, even if twin locked, because the events required to trigger the traction control simply would not arise.

For my part I have no expertise in these matters, just reporting what I was told.

[snowman]

Summary:

If you are not hard core but want a significantly improved traction aid, warranty, factory option. Go the rear diff lock for $700 (or thereabouts). With super select drive train the loss of LSD is easily compensated by the front wheel drive on hard paved surfaces. (yet to be proven - 5th and i have a date over this )
Obviously this means specifying (or sourcing) it when ordering one.

If you already have a rear LSD - and you want increased traction. Definitely go the front and keep the rear LSD.

If you have super select you really need to go a manual locker option (currently ARB only although 'Elocker' is not far away i am told (keep ringing Opposite Lock stores and harassing them will you please ))

If you have Easy Select the auto Lokka (or similiar) may be the go. Joe just got one so look for his posts about it over the next few weeks.

If you have completely lost the budget plot and want the best driveline traction then get a rear and front locker (this cannot be disputed). Even 1% counts.

But at this point you are well beyond suspension and muddies (you would do them first IMO) you are then looking at other options such as bigger tyres (again, beyond 32's),gearing, etc.

Once at that point i personally dont see much sense in other alternatives for a Triton. But there would be a few solid axle drivers out there who unexpectedly saw some tritons behind them that their vehicles just went up, or didn't. You wont compete with 6 inch lifted, 35-38 inch tyred cars.

But as we say the drive home is always much better.

i will edit this post if replies convince me.

[borngeek]

mmm I recall keeping up with 6" 38" tyred vehicles in coffs.... some of them got stuck and held Homer and I up

I have doubts about twin lock outperforming (so just like durability is yet to be proven!) but on paper should be best setup.

Would I wait for a custom build to arrive from thailand if they had no floor stock with the rear diff lock? Nope. Just buy what I want immediately available and throw on a front locker instead.

I will admit I am a impulse buyer. I hate having to wait 6 weeks for a couch, I just buy floor stock. No patience here. If you are patient order the rear DL option I suppose, it cant hurt.

BUT I reckon a LSD does perform better on road than a open diff, snowie is about to lose big time to 5th

you dont have to be 'hardcore' to enjoy the benefits of the front locker IMO. If anything, if you are conservative, this opens up much slower and safer 4wding experience. Everyone has limits and yes some say I am MAD but in reality I have damaged my vehicle when unlocked. I am yet to cause damage since front locked.


//edit away snowie! do you need me to PM arb dealers numbers????

[har05l]

Blah blah blah

Front, rear blah

Wheeny creek test coming your way soon

[borngeek]

bring it on grasshopper

[Homer]

Blah blah blah

Front, rear blah

Wheeny creek test coming your way soon

Pink slips

[har05l]

Blah blah blah

Front, rear blah

Wheeny creek test coming your way soon

Pink slips

Not for an ML

Till the cows come home we could talk about which D/L is better but so long as you have 1 or the other or even both the track's to be driven are far better than a truck with none

Had both and rate both

[Homer]

Yeah all in fun mate...but be prepared to be impressed how they go on the triton

[helicoptercow]

cow's come home....

[4wd26]

It comes down to what you prioritise as being more important. A front only will get you further up that rutted hill than a rear only, front lockers are good for climbing rocks too....suspension setup has both front wheels usually on the ground and a descent weight over them (the motor/gearbox) the rear lsd while not worth much traction wise is a strong diff never the less, thesame cant be said for the std front centre.
ARB have for whatever reason, trained their staff to suggest rear first, their wiring is setup that way, so is Toyotas from the factory, and it is so the front cant be overloaded...it is a smaller diff than the rear, so needs the rear driving to share load/assist the front. Spin a rear wheel and the drive pressure is on the two front tyres all the way back to the driveshaft....you need to be real careful....this however doesnt stop us disconnecting the centre diff for constant low range, where thesame scenario is present. One needs to be careful when putting large amounts of torque through the front diff....it is smaller to make the cruiser handle better on road, because according to their marketing dept most of an 80's life, is on the road.
Best option by far is to buy both

Read this on another forum- makes for interesting reading, and has many valid points (that we have now been able to verify) front locker= good.

but also the circumstances a front locker may be bad- and the reasons- it talks about 80 series cruiser- but points are relevant for the triton (or ony 4x4 as the front diff is smaller.)

[ag9111]

Comes down to how hard you want to push the front diff. I was always told to engage rear diff first then front if needed

[Mattstruck]

I think you front diff lock guys are comparing apples to pears.

I think your testing methods are EXTREMELY flawed.

For the following reasons:

You have an after market front diff lock, a very good (reportedly) rear LSD AND Traction Control.

Result: Bloody good 4x4. Very close to a completely d/locked car.

The rear diff locker blokes (of which I am one) have a disadvantage.

That is: a rear diff lock and an open front diff with NO TRACTION CONTROL.

You really cant compare the 2 accurately unless you had a rear d/l and a LSD front (!!) WITH traction control.

See when we turn our rear d/l on our traction control goes off. Thanks to Mitsu.

So you really cant say this is better than that unless you compare apples to apples.

I think the rear d/l is great for the following reasons:

Re-sale value or speed of sale.

Brilliant for the money.

BUT

Im not sure it is for everyone.

It is great only if you plan SERIOUS off road and intend to get a front d/l because then who cares if you have t/c??

If you are a weekend warrior the stock set up (with LSD and TC) is exceptional and good enough for most of us.

Thats my summary

[ag9111]

Mattnewbie, I think you have some things wrong with argument.
ML comes with open front diff,
LSD or Diff lock on the rear.
No traction control

MN comes with open front diff and traction control
Rear has open rear diff with traction control
or diff lock and no traction control when engaged
No rear LSD on MN

All the guys with front diff locks, that I am aware of have, have ML's

[Mattstruck]

Mattnewbie, I think you have some things wrong with argument.
ML comes with open front diff,
LSD or Diff lock on the rear.
No traction control

MN comes with open front diff and traction control
Rear has open rear diff with traction control
or diff lock and no traction control when engaged
No rear LSD on MN

All the guys with front diff locks, that I am aware of have, have ML's

Ok, I was talking MN. Dont know the older models set ups but they still have the front d/l and LSD.

Compared to rear d/l and open front diff. So even without t/c it is still a large advantage.

Also with the MN you get LSD rear (standard) if you dont choose the d/l option.

[al coholic]

Matt....check out Joe's post at the top of this page He has just installed an aftermarket front locker and already had the factory rear locker........so he was able to test out the difference of the two.....and in his opinion the front locker is MORE advantageous when off road.

I have seen a few of the front locked guys VS rear locked, and it does seem the front locker is better. Geek made a good example in this thread somewhere......

"Is it easier to push you wheelie bin up the hill or pull it up the hill??" There is your answer


But you are right........at $700 the rear locker is a great value for money option, and easily beats no locker at all