Fake Provent

[Rhoden]

Cant find a discussion on this .. so here's a link to Fake Provent Catch Cans being sold.
http://www.carformance.com.au/hp200

[Cowboy Dave]

Interesting stuff. There was someone trying to sell these on NewHilux a while back but they never made their way onto NewTriton thankfully.

[viking shippy]

I'm glad I didn't pull the guts out of my filter like others have thinking that they will blow a seal as it has two sets of valves for releasing high crank case pressure..

[Rory18]

Yeah, chip it were selling the counterfeit prevents and apexi turbo timers. Or that's what was said on newhilux.

[Cowboy Dave]

Not actually chipit but rather a guy that used to be one half of chipit but now runs a business called chiptuning. But yes, I remember the ads.

[StiddyGLX-R]

Basically reading that.. Regardless of the Chinese fake.. Our engines can suffer from excessive crankcase pressure?
Surely mitsi have something in place that not requiring the real catch or not can do it..

My opinion - on a modern diesel (unless shown otherwise) I don't see the point of a catch can/oil air separator.

I've seen a few posts showing 20-30ml of oil after 5000km on a triton. To me that's negligible compared to some.

[Rhoden]

I have been getting 10-15Mls of nasty black sludge from my Provent 200 after about 3 - 4 months. Thats about how long I take to check. On my second filter now. Had the Provent since Triton was new almost. Better not to have that crap in your manifold. Remember seeing somewhere that the 20,000km service that they do the valves or something and the opportunity to check intake manifold for carbon was there. If I knew I would have asked how it was. Clogged up or not. ehhh too late now. I'm at 30,000K.. 2010 MN GLXR. Not many K's lol Taking my Camper Trailer for a run soon.

[Cowboy Dave]

There seem to be competing schools of thought on it. They shouldn't pressurise without a catch can and the question of whether they will pressurise with one in place has a lot of variables - hose length, hose diameter, hose path, filter qualities and no doubt other stuff as well. I'd like to think that maybe the oil is less harmful if it doesn't have a bunch of carbon mixing in with it and the carbon seems a bit easier to eradicate these days.

[StiddyGLX-R]

Does sort of sound lithe a preventative mod. But if they check, adjust and clean at a service (or say they do) is it necessary ?
Might be worth it for peace at mind if anything...

Still undecided..

[Cowboy Dave]

They won't do it every service but on the ones where they are doing the valve clearance and therefore have everything off they should be doing it - but not all of them will unfortunately. There are a couple of catchcan threads from memory where this sort of stuff has been discussed quite a bit. I had one on for a while but gave up on it. Once Tony said the pressure was a potential problem that was enough to turn me off the idea.

[StiddyGLX-R]

Tony being in the field that he is/has been (platinum members can see more)and the testing he has done I'd be inclined to do what he says lol
I drive mine a few times a month so it's going to be a long time between the regulatory services.. Be lucky to put on 8k a year at the rate I'm going.

[triton_guru]

Just run the crankcase hose to the floor thats what ive done and that's what they do on road trains and all that shit, no one would ever know. I had a issue with my catch can that it was too restrictive so just removed the whole thing

[Tony]

They are overrated on these little Diesels as they still weep oil past turbo seals so your manifolds get misted anyway.
Positive pressure can be a problem and worsens turbo seals weeping (The large drain hose from turbo goes into lower crank case for a reason) Other issues that have come up is blowing no one injector seal out, weeping gaskets, leaky crank seals and in bad cases pops the dip stick.

If the plumbing is too long or has too many fittings, it creates friction head to the crankcase venting. The provent its self is not too restrictive by any means if well maintained. Just the long hose runs and fittings some people are using.
I've never had a look at the knock off provent version as Chipit never did sell them as many other items from the other vendor.

[snowman]

firstly i don't run one of these. but i do understand about drainage principles. So to expand on something Tony has outlined above about 'friction head'. In short it is a resistance to the flow (of this case) air from the engine to the vent and then also returning to the manifold.

I have always been concerned when seeing some peoples installations that if you install the hose in such a way that a 'dip' occurs in the middle of the hose from the engine to the vent then a slug of oil can build up in there.

As a demonstration, get some of the hose and bend it like a banana and place some oil in the bottom of it. Then try and blow through it. It will be incredibly difficult to blow out and it basically plugs up the pipe. This then allows the crank to overpressurise as the free flow of air is restricted and it looks for other ways to escape and hence Tony's other failure locations.

So in my opinion whenever you do decide to install these arrangements you must make sure that ANY POINT on the hose can utilise gravity drainage principles back to either the engine or the catch can. In other words from any point in the hose there must be a downhill path (ONLY - no up and down) to the beginning or end of the hose. This means any oil deposits that build up from the mist can slowly run back to the end of the hose (either end) and not plug it up over time.

You are looking to ensure there is a complete open cross section of hose throughout its length with no oil buildups.

[triton_guru]

Tony what's your view on just running it to ground?

[NowForThe5th]

Good post, Snowie. Helped me to understand.

[Cowboy Dave]

Running it to ground is illegal I think?

[srb]

I popped an injector seal in the early days of setting up my Triton... I had only just installed the Provent too. However the mechanic said the seal was never seated properly so wasn't caused by Provent, but who knows.
I kept the Provent in for about a year after that but realized I was still getting oil mist through to my manifolds due to it passing through the turbo seals. So I ditched the stupid Provent as it caused more hassle than it was worth.
IMO they are a wast of space! I also forgot to close the drain tap once and nearly stuffed my whole engine as a result of sucking in sand and mud. Users error but could happen to anyone.

[viking shippy]

They are overrated on these little Diesels as they still weep oil past turbo seals so your manifolds get misted anyway.
Positive pressure can be a problem and worsens turbo seals weeping (The large drain hose from turbo goes into lower crank case for a reason) Other issues that have come up is blowing no one injector seal out, weeping gaskets, leaky crank seals and in bad cases pops the dip stick.

If the plumbing is too long or has too many fittings, it creates friction head to the crankcase venting. The provent its self is not too restrictive by any means if well maintained. Just the long hose runs and fittings some people are using.
I've never had a look at the knock off provent version as Chipit never did sell them as many other items from the other vendor.

Tony
in the link in the first post..it describes the differences between the two pro-vents..
Pro vent describes ; that the original has two fail safe systems integrated into
the vents.
to release excessive crank case pressure one in the bottom of the unit and one in the lid.....surely these valves are not good enough for these engines to release this pressure if it gets excessive...
Graham...

[SEJ GLX-R]

Don't forget the Tritons come with a factory fitted oil catch can anyway..... It called the intercooler

[snowman]

Tony
in the link in the first post..it describes the differences between the two pro-vents..
Pro vent describes ; that the original has two fail safe systems integrated into
the vents.
to release excessive crank case pressure one in the bottom of the unit and one in the lid.....surely these valves are not good enough for these engines to release this pressure if it gets excessive...
Graham...

they wont help if the blockage is in the pipework running to the vent. they would only help if the vent itself fills up i expect.

[viking shippy]

Just lifted this from the Mann Hummel PDF

In closed systems the pres- sure regulator (item 3 in dia- gram) can be set as required to maintain a constant level independent of the negative pressure of the air intake manifold. The set pressure level simply depends on the quantity of blow-by gases (see Fig. 3).
The crankcase pressure remains within a narrow
range even with a variable negative air intake pressure and fluctuating blow-by gas volumes. The pressure regu- lator does not operate in an open ProVent system.

Snowman how could those pipes get blocked 3/4 inch and Cary oil mist ..?

[viking shippy]

.https://www.mann-hummel.com/fileadmin/u ... n_2013.pdf

Page 15
Explains the pressure relief system
And how the regulator Keeps a negative pressure in the crank case...
That would keep the oil in...?

[snowman]

Snowman how could those pipes get blocked 3/4 inch and Cary oil mist ..?

OK so again i am not professing to be an expert in pro-vents but this is my logic.

the mist as it flows through the pipe will, in part, stick the the sides of the hose (pipe). It has a viscosity so it will flow, albeit very slowly over time. It will naturally want to flow to a low point (gravity), particularly while your car is just sitting there.

If that low point is the bottom of a dip in the pipe then it will 'plug' in that location. It will slowly close up a bit like a dodgy artery in your body until there is no (air)flow and then you get your pressure problem. Not dissimiliar to how the oil tends to collect/sit in the bottom of the intercooler. Only at that location it does not significantly restrict the airflow to the intake (from all reports as it can take a lot of oil before it is an issue).

[mad992]

Running it to ground is illegal I think?

true , you cannot drop oil over the road