Winter and Alpine Diesel

[PortoMN]

Hi All,

Had the great pleasure of snowboarding up at Mt Hotham this weekend gone. Was up there for 2 nights, and had 2 of the best days I have ever had at Hotham, but thats another story.....

Saw a few mid to late model Diesel 4wd's getting their fuel tanks heated up in the arvo on Sunday as I was boarding, and thought to myself, I wonder how I will go later today.

Suprise, suprise, I had issues. Finally got the truck started, but couldn't get more than 500m without stalling. Called mitsu roadside assist and was told that their guy at hotham would be at least 2 hrs away as there were a lot of "customers" in a similar predicament......

In the end, with a lot of idling, keeping the revs up, and some dumb luck I managed to drive the gang down without needing RACV.

So my question: WTF? Is this the joy of owning a Diesel, or is there something I can do to avoid this in the future?

[al coholic]

Did you drive there with a full tank?? Or did you fill up with alpine diesel when in the mountains??? .

I can really notice the difference of a morning here when the tenp is down around 0 deg. The truck is very hard to start, but once it is......no probs. 4 or 5 deg mornings it starts like normal.

[Joe]

Did you drive there with a full tank?? Or did you fill up with alpine diesel when in the mountains??? .

I can really notice the difference of a morning here when the tenp is down around 0 deg. The truck is very hard to start, but once it is......no probs. 4 or 5 deg mornings it starts like normal.

You know it's funny alco, but I've never had that problem.

Ohhhh.... that must be it, I live in sunny Queensland

[PortoMN]

Filled up around half the tank in Myrtelford (around 80k's from Hotham). I didn't notice if it was alpine diesel or not.....temps were -1 deg when I left.

[Kegsy]

Im heading down that way next week for some snowboarding as well, now you got me thinking ha ha.

She'll be right

[al coholic]

IF it was -1, i dont think you should have had that big of a problem. But if it was sitting still in those temps for quite some time........could be all it was. Plenty of times this winter i have had to start in temps up to -2 or so, like i said, its just harder than normal, say 4 or 5 attempts before it kicks over compared to very first attempt when its warmer. I usually warm the truck up for a good 5 min of a morning when its cold like that, never had a problem once driving.

Alpine diesel is bright green with the anti freeze or whatever is in it.

[Kegsy]

Yeah I've started mine at 0 to -1 and its been fine. I found being really quick on the key once the glow plug light has gone out is the shot.

Don't give the combustion chamber a chance to cool off after the glow plug warms it.

But I am interested to see how it goes in the snow. I take it Alpine diesel is more volatile?

[NowForThe5th]

Alpine diesel isn't more volatile in the sense that I think you mean, Kegsy. What it is, is pretty much normal distillate (not diesel fuel, which is generally not used in road vehicles) which is mixed with a lighter fraction which is very like heating oil. Basically this reduces the temperature at which the fuel will begin to solidify and form wax which then gets caught in the supply sytem and creates blockages. That's why you see vehicles having their fuel tanks warmed up - to heat the fuel and melt the wax.

Best solution is to fill up with as near to a full tank as possible with Alpine rated fuel on the way to the mountains. In NSW it's available from Cooma south but some of the Victorian boys can tell you where to get it on the other side of the hill.

[Kegsy]

Thanks for the heads up.

What about on the way back, no problems in using this alpine diesel in the warmer climate? Or should you top up with the regular asap to blend it out a bit?

[NowForThe5th]

It works fine in the warmer climes. Just more expensive for the oil companies and there's no need for that formulation.

[kevin]

I'm off to Hotham in a couple of weeks too - so tell me, how do they warm the fuel tank? Do I recall reading somewhere that adding a few litres of petrol in the tank will prevent the diesel waxing issue in cold temps?

[patrolus]

I'm off to Hotham in a couple of weeks too - so tell me, how do they warm the fuel tank? Do I recall reading somewhere that adding a few litres of petrol in the tank will prevent the diesel waxing issue in cold temps?

yep. petrol blended into the diesel will keep the diesel the way u want it. wouldn't go higher than 5% though, as it lowers the cetan rating of ur diesel at the same time. i am actually surprised 0deg is already showing an effect on the oilburners .....would have expected the juice would stay safe to about -4 or-5 without any additions.....

[Quinny23]

I believe its more the time it sits like that... being in the cold on a hill for a few days if diferent to a one night stand with an early morning cold shoulder...

Alpine mix is available in Bright although I would have thought Myrtleford had it also...

As has been mentioned, it contains less wax and is more resiliant to solidifying in the cold.

I also find I have to warm the car for a few minutes in these conditions prior to starting otherwise its just like driving a Navara... , only when camped at altitude in the cold conditions.

Normaly a cold morning its a simple 20 second warm up and she's apples.

One word of caution though, I wouldnt want to clog up one of these newer direct injection style motors as the fuels systems are more delicate than the mechanical ones and cost a bomb to get replaced/cleaned.

Some more info...

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle ... Id=7026265


http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... 620027E27E

[kevin]

Back from Hotham; have not damaged myself too much!

After being parked for several days the car started first go - whoohoo! Was it cold, well the bonnet had about 15cm snow on it - about 8-10cm on the roof.

I intentionally left Sydney with just half a tank; at Yass I filled back to just half a tank again but with "Highland" Diesel which is good to minus 2C. Then at Myrtleford I filled with "Alpine" diesel. The guy at the servo said you must have at least 3/4 tank of Alpine for it to be effective. (I researched this strategy with Caltex initially via email and then one of their guys called me which was most appreciated)

So - all kool and the trip (it's first long drive) went really well.

[Kegsy]

Yeah I'm at perisher now. Car covered with snow, started first crank not a worry.

I filled up with diesel at jindy.

[gpx]

I have lived in the Snowy Mounains for the last 13 years and this is the first year I have had fuel waxing problems. Happened to the MN Triton on the weekend and to the tractor last week so I am suspecting the Caltex diesel fuel i use. Not really much colder this year than any previous years.

If your travelling this area you may want to be aware of this but rest assured:
It needs to be a good -3 C or lower for more than 3 or 4 hours to be a problem, and the vehicle would need to be sitting outside for more than 24 hours.

I have seen people in Russia build a fire under the fuel tank to warm the fuel; I am not there yet but don't push me Caltex!

[Crash486]

How do they cope in Europe etc with l200's. Maybe that was the heater system that one of the recent members mentioned in his post.

[Cowboy Dave]

Some of the aftermarket fuel filters like the racor parker can be fitted with heating elements so perhaps they deal with it in a similar way?

So many untapped aspects to these vehicles. I was looking at a wiring diagram the other night that seemed to suggest factory day time running lights which I've never noticed on a stock model. Would be great to have a single reference source for all the international options and which ones are in place and can be used and with which part numbers. I don't need heated mirrors for example but the extra thermo fan for the aircon was a pretty good find.

[Calblitzen]

I don't need heated mirrors for example but the extra thermo fan for the aircon was a pretty good find.

Heated mirrors are great in winter, had heated mirrors on a Jackaroo along a button to make them fold in.

[ag9111]

I don't need heated mirrors for example but the extra thermo fan for the aircon was a pretty good find.

along a button to make them fold in.

I usually find trees do that for me

[lazarus]

In Europe we use to add few liters (for example 2-3 liters to triton 75 litre tank) of unleaded petrol to a tank of diesel to prevent diesel waxing. It worked like a charm. Never heard of anyone having any issues doing that.

It does not stop it but what it does it takes much, much lower temperature to wax mix like that.

I am not sure whats the go with modern vehicles and the above process.

[Calblitzen]

I don't need heated mirrors for example but the extra thermo fan for the aircon was a pretty good find.

along a button to make them fold in.

I usually find trees do that for me

Or you could use your method.

[Cowboy Dave]

I reckon in 3 years ownership I might have had fogged mirrors 2 or 3 times so I don't see it as a big drama. But that was just an example anyway of a circuit that must be built into the European Tritons but maybe not down here. We've all see wiring that goes nowhere and blank plugs here and there - I'd love to know what they all are since they'd offer an OEM route for extra mods.

Do the servos in alpine regions usually put out signage or anything when they switch over to the alpine blend?

[Jimboz]

We have been on winter mix for nearly a month now. If you are travelling to the high country anywhere you can buy Icebreaker additive to mix in with regular diesel (works well). Dave most servo's will have a note on the pump to let you know, or have a sign out the front by the road.
I don't know about petrol in the diesel, knew a dick head who used to do that to a 903 cummins in a Louisville, was very impressive at night when following him (flames out of both stacks) but blew up big time later on!!!

[NowForThe5th]

Heating oil mixed with your fuel will lower the waxing point significantly. A bit safer than petrol, I'd imagine.